Author Topic: Julia auction fowling piece  (Read 5566 times)

Offline Jim Kibler

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Julia auction fowling piece
« on: September 19, 2014, 02:49:16 PM »
http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2014/09/very-early-hudson-valley-fowler-at.html?m=1

So what makes this a Hudson valley fowler?  Sure looks like an English product to me.  Am I missing something?

Offline Eric Kettenburg

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Re: Julia auction fowling piece
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2014, 04:07:07 PM »
I'd suspect it's European as well, although I would like to see a determination of the walnut type.  Could have been made here by a trained stocker with imported furnishings, but if so, there doesn't look to be so much "Hudson Valley" as there does just plain classic long fowling piece.
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Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Julia auction fowling piece
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2014, 07:51:33 PM »
One interesting detail is that the barrel is attached with keys.  If English or continental, a date of about 1700 seems reasonable to me, which is very early to expect the use of keys.

Offline James Rogers

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Re: Julia auction fowling piece
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2014, 10:14:30 PM »
I noticed those keys as well. This is the third gun I have seen that is "too early" to have the keys. Oddly all 3 of them are not in the category of best work for the period. The butt stock profile is a little odd to me. The closeups sure make the wood look very open grained.

Offline Eric Kettenburg

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Re: Julia auction fowling piece
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2014, 01:49:51 AM »
Well the whole thing has been scrubbed for starters, so there is that in respect to the open pores.

That guy sure had a lot of guns, but holy cow pretty much all of them have been fairly well diddled if I may say so.
Strange women lying in ponds, distributing swords, is no basis for a system of government!

Offline smart dog

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Re: Julia auction fowling piece
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2014, 11:41:13 PM »
Hi,
I think the name on the lock is Edmond Weston, a London maker working between 1683-1713.  He apprenticed under Robert Brooke, a name that might be familiar with some of you.  Perhaps there has been a lot of diddling with this gun.

dave
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Julia auction fowling piece
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2014, 01:32:16 AM »
It's hard to say for sure given the photographs available, but the barrel appears to likely have London proofs based on the size, placement etc.

Offline Buck

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Re: Julia auction fowling piece
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2014, 01:39:07 AM »
There has been a lot of Diddling on all of the rifles with the exception of 2 or 3. A good example is the Hawken  (which is only the butt) and the Southern Rifle which is new from the front of the lock forward. I feel bad for this guy.

Online rich pierce

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Re: Julia auction fowling piece
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2014, 05:10:35 AM »
Most? of the guns that have made it into the books we all love have had a fair bit of work.  It was normal practice in the 1900s I think.  I sure saw a lot of shiny Kentuckies back in the 80s at gun shows.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Julia auction fowling piece
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2014, 07:30:42 PM »
From the British perspective, it's still proper to "shine things up".  Given the context of this gun, it's not surprising at all.  I've had some dealings with high end English collectors, dealers etc. and they think nothing of stripping corrosion, patina, finish etc.  I've heard it referred to as "bringing a gun back".  
« Last Edit: September 22, 2014, 07:54:15 PM by Jim Kibler »

Offline JTR

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Re: Julia auction fowling piece
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2014, 07:33:57 PM »
Dillin, in 1924, writes about all the 'diddling' going on since the resurgence of interest since the 1876 centennial.

And 'diddling' has been going on ever since then.

Most of the Greatest guns known have been diddled with, from a little, to a Lot.

If someone had the wherewithal to build a collection of the Very Best, but with untouched guns only, the collection would be mighty small!

Down in my collector category, I count myself lucky if I find an Original flintlock on a rifle!

John
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Offline jdm

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Re: Julia auction fowling piece
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2014, 10:31:28 PM »
JTR, You are so right. On a two hundred (plus or minis) year old rifle every joker  that's owned it has had to mess with it. Even today. Most of them I would guess were just trying to preserve the piece. Some I suppose had other motives.
I am not opposed to restoration if disclosed. The better the piece the more forgiving I'll be.  Some times you only get one shot (no pun) at gun in your lifetime. How bad do you want it.  JIM
JIM

Offline Buck

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Re: Julia auction fowling piece
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2014, 11:33:07 PM »
Jim - John,
Well put, if its disclosed then it's a dead issue, the fault then shifts if your dissatisfied. I've had a couple that Louie P shook his head at.
Buck

Offline louieparker

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Re: Julia auction fowling piece
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2014, 11:55:28 PM »
Yes, lots of diddling going on !!  I diddled with one last week and then Fed Ex diddled with it, Now I get to diddle it again !!  ;

Offline jdm

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Re: Julia auction fowling piece
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2014, 12:04:48 AM »
Louie , I'm glad you can still diddle.
JIM