Author Topic: Hawken or Leman  (Read 6855 times)

Offline Daniel

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Hawken or Leman
« on: October 07, 2014, 07:16:46 PM »
I was in an Antique store and they had a half stock in a display. The write up said
an early Hawken brothers rifle. All brass mounts. Not to bad of shape.
Now this part threw me $695.00. I can't get picks but it really looked like an Ohio Vincent rifle.
What are some defining marks to look for to determine authenticity ?
« Last Edit: October 08, 2014, 03:51:43 PM by Daniel »
Daniel     Ecc.4:12

Offline JTR

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Re: Hawkin or Leman
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2014, 07:46:33 PM »
Well, I'd say it's more or less virtually impossible to explain all the things you'd need to know to determine without a doubt whether the rifle is an original. Especially given all the carefully done fakes that are being made today and for the last several years.
Probably the best thing to do is be sure it doesn't say Made in Japan, or Italy, or where ever someplace on the barrel. Also look on the barrel for a makers signature or stamp. Might say Hawken on the barrel, or Vincent, or something else. Take a look, check it out with a magnifying glass. Remember that stamped names are regularly faked.

Also, if it brass mounted, it's probably not an Early Hawken, but for $695, just buy it anyway! If it turns out to be any sort of Hawken, or Vincent, or just about any true antique, it's worth the price.
And since it's a antique store, offer them 10/15% less!

If it turns out to be a well made nicely aged and faked modern made rifle, either shoot it, or put it up for sale here!

Once you buy it, put the pictures up here. Unbelievable great deals Do pop up from time to time!

John
John Robbins

galamb

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Re: Hawkin or Leman
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2014, 10:42:27 PM »
This is a (later) Sam Hawken "local" rifle (also called Missouri, Turkey, Squirrel, Plain and probably a few other names) - not to be confused with the "Plains" or "Mountain" rifles that he and he/his brother built.

They were more typically brass mounted and while he used a few different trigger guards, he seemed to favour one in the "style" typically found on Ohio rifles (including those from either of the Vincent's).

The Vincent's and other Ohio's did tend to have a bit of a (nose) on the forestock (unlike this) - almost as if a full stock had been cut down but a few inches of the stock was left just in front of the transition - so that the nose cap is on the (thinner) forestock.

Here's an example of a 36 cal S. Hawken rifle



In comparison here is a few Vincents


eddillon

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Re: Hawkin or Leman
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2014, 08:40:06 AM »
If you are referring to Christian, Sam or Jake, please spell the name correctly.  It is Hawken not Hawkin.

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Hawkin or Leman
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2014, 02:01:27 PM »
This is very near to being identical to a 40 caliber half stock I made in 1960
for a man in Portsmouth,Ohio.
Mine had a beaver tail cheek rest and cast silver BP/TG.

Bob Roller

Offline Daniel

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Re: Hawken or Leman
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2014, 03:53:27 PM »
That style of trigger guard is what's on the rifle. No existing nose cap.
Guess I need to go back and see if they will pull it out of the case.
Daniel     Ecc.4:12

Offline JTR

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Re: Hawkin or Leman
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2014, 06:49:57 PM »
If you are referring to Christian, Sam or Jake, please spell the name correctly.  It is Hawken not Hawkin.


So where is it mis-spelled?

John
John Robbins

Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: Hawken or Leman
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2014, 07:45:47 PM »
In the header for all but the first post.
Dennis
"I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend" - Thomas Jefferson

Offline mr. no gold

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Re: Hawken or Leman
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2014, 09:02:47 PM »
If we are getting nervous here about spelllig, then let's spell it the original way, which is  'Hachen'. That should do it.
Dick

Offline Daniel

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Re: Hawken or Leman
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2014, 09:04:51 PM »
I'm just a dumb red neck retired mechanic. I kaint spel fer nuttin.
Daniel     Ecc.4:12

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Hawken or Leman
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2014, 01:59:58 AM »
I kept making the letter "X" backwards and almost flunked the 4th grade.

Bob Roller

Offline Chuck Burrows

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Re: Hawken or Leman
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2014, 04:16:23 AM »

A half-stock Leman - it's on an auction site so you'll have to register to view the large images, but it's free and a good site for research at times..

http://historical.ha.com/itm/western-expansion/cowboy/half-stock-percussion-plains-rifle-barrel-stamped-he-leman-lancaster-pa-warranted-lock-plate-stamped-ashmore-ci-total-1-item-/a/680-74051.s#Photo
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I,
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

Offline mountainman70

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Re: Hawken or Leman
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2014, 04:47:52 AM »
I kept making the letter "X" backwards and almost flunked the 4th grade.


4th grade was the hardest 3 years of my grade scool experience.   Dave F