Early wooden box Bucks Co. rifle

[Lucky R A]

     Over the years a number of members have expressed a desire to build a Bucks Co. rifle with a wooden patchbox.  I have frequently responded that I have never seen an original wooden box Bucks Co. gun.  I further checked this out with Eric Armstrong and a few others, and there seemed to be no wooden box guns with the classic Bucks Co. features.  Last year my KRA sponsor turned up a gun that had been collected and stored away for many years.  When he sent me the initial photos, it became evident that this gun was one of the progenitors of the classic Bucks Co. style...and it had a wooden box.  I immediately made arrangements to examine and measure the gun.  I copied the outline of the gun and took all the measurements that would allow me to replicate it.  The gun is unsigned, but carries its original lock that had been percussed.  It has a 46" 60 cal. O/R smoothbore barrel.  The barrel appears to have been shortened by about 2" when the gun was percussed.  The forestock has been shortened and a pewter nose cap has been installed.  The butt plate is 4-3/4" tall and 2-1/8" wide with a thumbnail final.  The trigger guard was 9" long with thumbnail finals on each end.  The gun has an elongated entry thimble  again ending in a thumbnail final.  The forestock moldings are very similar to that found on many classic Bucks Co. rifles. 
      In August I had everything in place to start replicating the gun as shown here.  I used a 60 cal. full octagon barrel that I bought from Roger Sells, a member here.  The barrel is 48" long and was nearly perfect for the build.  I toyed with the idea of trying to turn the octagon barrel half round, but chickened out.  I found that a Chambers Early Ketland lock was nearly a duplicate for the original lock.  A Reaves Gohring trigger guard stretched by nearly an inch duplicated the original guard.  I duplicated the original style carvings to the best of my abilities.  The original box lid was missing, so I had to replicate it from the evidences found on the original stock.  The design features are pure  conjecture.  I hope that sometime I will be able to post photos of the original when it is fully restored.

[flehto]

Thanks for the info and pics of your BC LR. From the particulars of the original and it's very wide Bplate w/ a  flat shaped shoe along w/ the normal features of a BC, it would seem that BC LRs were built earlier than previously thought.  But this might not be true either....a .60 cal. recoils quite a bit, so perhaps the Bplate is in response to the recoil? But then there's the wooden Bpox which would date this BC earlier than what is thought.

Anyways, to my uneducated eye, your  BC LR's buttstock  does have the appearance of being early. You do exquisite work which is unobtainable by many of us.

Kinda like the thumbnailed entry pipe....different than what is on most BC LRs.

Am waiting for the more knowledgeable members familiar w/ BCs to chime in. This could get very interesting and educational. Thanks again for posting your pics and supplying the info asre the original. Also any conjecture as to the  original builder?....Fred      

[smart dog]

Hi Ron,
That is a fabulous rifle.  I love the architecture and cannot help but wonder how old the original was.  Your workmanship is superb. I love the carving and the patchbox.  Boy that early Ketland lock sure fits that gun.  What a great piece.  Thanks for the photos.

dave

[b bogart]

Outstanding rifle Mr Lucky! Is this the missing link?? I see the Bucks characteristics, but a little bigger than what we normally consider classic. I like it!

[alex e.]

I am in awe.

[horseman]

 You did a great job on the reproduction, Ron!  Thank you for posting the information as well as the pictures.

[kaintuck]

VERY nice metal ageing.....booger the screw heads some to complete the look is my only thought.....

Did you use a Clorox wash or what on the metal?

Marc n tomtom

[Tom Currie]

Ron, Thanks for sharing your work and the story behind it. Lots of lehigh features are present on this gun as well as signature Bucks details. The carving really stands out as well done. I'm curious is carving on the original as well done as yours is ? Would you speculate on a date for the original ? 1780s or early 90s ?

[rich pierce]

A gun with a buttplate that wide seems likely to be 1770s.  That fits with the lock as well.  The "Bucks County" features I see are the finial on the buttplate, the ends of the guard, the elongated entry thimble, and some of the carving on the patchbox side.  I lean a little bit away from it being an Antes gun, because I would expect a curved lower buttstock profile at this date, and the carving is more like RCA 59 than his.  The carving also reminds me of that on an early rifle with Bucks County features highlighted in Shumway's July 1996 Muzzle Blasts article, "A Case of Lehigh Valley Longrifle Evolution".

What specific features of this rifle reminds you of particular early rifles or later, "classic" Bucks County rifles?

[lexington1]

Wow Ron, I didn't realize you were building this for me!  Seriously, that is a fantastic rendition of the original. Someone is going to be very happy.

[Tom Currie]

I'll offer a couple thoughts:

The molding along the forestock is classic Bucks County but then again Neihard used it also most likely prior to the Bucks County guns sort of splitting off from what was being developed in the Lehigh Valley.

The tang carving with the perpendicular band was used by Herman Rupp and I've seen it before also.

Georger Weiker ( RCA 62 ) used a side plate with the button at the end and also an elongated entry pipe ending in a similiar fashion albeit a longer one than this gun has. Buttplate width is 1 7/8 . He was born in 1769 so probably not on his own before late 1780s.  He was certainly around to see the Bucks County school emerge.

The really fine cheek side carving intrigues me ( It's why I asked Ron if the original is this fine ). For comparison ,I think it flows much like the unattributed smoothbore rifle in the Moravian book. However did this was well trained.

[bama]

Ron thank you for sharing this superb build with us. It is exciting for me to see "outside the norm builds" and this rifle definitely is not the standard pre-carved kit build. Great job.

[Tom Currie]

For those of you that have the KRA Lehigh CD, take a look at the Cheek side carving on Early Lehigh #8. Especialy the upper C scroll and wavy incised lines. The box side carving design is almost exact and a thumbnail butt plate tang to boot.

Same 2 chip cuts on the underside of the lock and side panel moldings.

[JTR]

Nice job!

The butt carving and a couple other areas remind me of Jacob Dubbs. But I've only seen two of his guns, both attributed, both needing restoration...
John

[Mike Brooks]

I know very little about Buckaroo Co. guns, but I like this. very fine piece of art work. Looks like something I would build....I don't know if that's good or bad.

[Robby]

I think that would be good Mike. Lucky, that is a beautiful gun in any county, thanks for posting it!!!!!
Robby

[Brookville]

John:  Did you mean "Jacob Dubbs" or "Jacob Daub"?  Daub worked in northern Montgomery County and produced rifles with details that are attributed to the "Bucks" school.  He definitely was part of the Verner, Shuler, and Weicker gang.

There is something in the "soft" line of the comb on Ron's copy that reminds me of Daub's work. 

[JTR]

John:  Did you mean "Jacob Dubbs" or "Jacob Daub"?  Daub worked in northern Montgomery County and produced rifles with details that are attributed to the "Bucks" school.  He definitely was part of the Verner, Shuler, and Weicker gang.

There is something in the "soft" line of the comb on Ron's copy that reminds me of Daub's work. 

Brookville,
Jacob Dubbs. Northampton Co. Died 1775 or so. I have a few pictures on this computer someplace of a rifle attributed to him. Attributed, not signed,,, The rifle didn't have near as much comb as Ron's rifle.
I wondering if Ron saw the original to his effort at the last KRA show?

John

[Lucky R A]

     Thanks so much for all the nice comments on the gun.  I think this gun has a lot to teach us about the lower Lehigh, Montgomery, and Bucks Co. area gun makers.  I will try to answer some of your questions and give my impressions, so that we may all more fully understand this area of early gun making. 
       The general consensus is that this is a Rev. War or slightly earlier piece 
       The gun shows some Lehigh Co. characteristics, especially the tang carving.  I have seen a very similar tang carvings on much later Classic Bucks Co. rifles, so this is not uncommon to find a mix of details on early or later guns.
        The carving behind the cheekpiece is taken directly from the original in detail and style as nearly as possible.  I feel that this carving also has a flavor of Lehigh Co.   When I showed the photos of the original to Eric Kettenburg, he threw out the name Johannes Moll an early Lehigh Co. maker as the possible maker.   I will try to get permission to post a photo of the original cheekpiece carving.
         The Fleur de-lis finals of the lock moldings are in the classic Bucks Co. style.  The forestock moldings end in the classic Bucks Co. termination.  The gun has an embryonic extended entry pipe.  Rounded thumbnail finals on the hardware and a myriad of carving details found on other later Bucks Co. rifles seem to make a pretty convincing body of evidence for a progenitor of the classic Bucks Co. style rifle. 
          There are a couple of rifles that seem to be "sister" rifles to this rifle; one is in Canada and the other in the U.S.   At some point it would be interesting to get them together, possibly at a KRA show where they can be photographed, shared, and studied.
           I hope to have this rifle at Lewisburg this February; if you can make the show, stop by and chat. 

Best wishes
Ron
         

[jamesthomas]

 So how does it handle? I imagine a 48" full length Octagon even a 60 cal. would be a bit nose heavy and awkward to handle. It is a nice rifle though.

[Lucky R A]

James,
   Amazingly, the rifle handles rather well.  The barrel built by Ed Rayl is swamped in an early profile.  The bulk of the butt stock counterbalances the rather long barrel.  The forestock and wood is pretty darn close to the barrel.  It is not as nice and handy as a 42 inch B weight that comes in at about 7-1/4 lbs.  The total weight of this gun on the scales is just over 9lbs.  The architecture allows it to hold well without strain, just a bit more weight.  When I sighted it in, I tried a group with 90 gr. of 2-f and it was very comfortable to shoot.   I shot several shots offhand and was able to make very good hits, and I am used to shooting a D/S trigger.  The M-14 I used to carry (long, long ago) weighed more than this rifle.
Ron

[KLMoors]

That rifle has buckets of personality. I too love the architecture.  Thanks for posting the pictures and information.

[jamesthomas]

 That's nice, So what are the specs on the swamp?, in your first post you said it was a "straight" 48" inch Octagon, and I reckon having a .60 hole down the middle helps a bit and the little extra weight tames the recoil some. We need a picture of it out deer hunting and between the rack of a nice 8 pointer.

[Brookville]

Ron asked me to post this image of the cheekpiece carving on the original gun

[aaronc]

That is a Beautiful piece of work. The stain/aged look achieved is fantastic.