French Grey methods please

[Bruce Bump]

I want to ask you guys your method of the "French Grey" finish on a rifle/pistol. I see it on some fine engraved rifles at shows. It will bring out the engraving better than blueing.

[keweenaw]

There are a variety of methods used to get French gray.  A common method is to blue first using hot caustic salts and then etch the blue off with dilute hydrochloric or acetic acid.  You can also do this with a good quality cold blue as the base coat.  The combination of the bluing and etching just takes that shine off the surface which allows the engraving to show better.

Tom

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

I just use Brownells 44/40 cold blue and then soak with chlorine bleach wiped on with cotton balls, then card it back with green scotchbrite or steel wool to the color you want.

this one I am working on now I am going to boil in bleech and see if I can get a nice blue black.  Its all fun!!

[Bill of the 45th]

Doc Tim,  you better have some really good ventilation or a re breather, iffen you're going to cook with Bleach.  We don't want to hear about the late, great Doc Boone.  All heat will do is increase the reaction speed.  You can get the same results by heating the barrel then apply the bleach, with a cloth or pad.  It'll be safer and work as well.  You still ventilation.  My french Grey formula is to cold blue, then naval jelly, then blue again, then card down to what I want

Bill

[jerrywh]

 Almost any kind of coloring will work to french gray. Personally I have had the worst luck with cold blue. it's harder to gray back than the others.  The one below has been color case hardened and then selectively grayed back with birch wood casey's blue remover.
  I don;t use Hydrochloric acid because it bothers my eyes, throat, nose , lungs and almost everything else. Likewise with chlorine. When you do this selectively your face is right over it for hours sometimes.
 Toilet bowl cleaner, Brownell's blue remover, birchwood casey's blue remover and phosphoric acid are all the same chemical. I keep a small fan going on the work when I doing it to keep the fumes away.

 PS. If you want to do selective stuff, go to the wemen's nail dept. and get some nail polish brushes, the smallest they have. Put it on pretty dry or it will run out onto the undesireable parts.

[Greg Field]

That's beautiful, Jerry!

[Bruce Bump]

Thanks Guys,
Wow Jerry thats nice work. Beautiful.

It looks like everybody does the French Grey differently. Is there no right/wrong way? From what I can tell though is I should color it first and remove the color leaving the color (blue) in the low spots to enhance the engraving. I can color it any number of ways from hot blue, cold blue or even color case.

I'm still not ready to jump in with both feet. Anybody else care to share?

[jerrywh]

Bruce. right. You can even fire blue it.  I must tell you the demo photo I have shown is not just french grayed it is polished back afterwards.  That is just another form of french graying. Just plain french gray comes out a rather dirty looking gray but the longer you leave the acid on the whiter it gets.  It can also be brightened up by poishing with rubbing compound or any kind of fine abrasive that will fit the job.

[lew wetzel]

i had met ken netting last year in lodi and he french grays his rifles,and the way he explained his process to me is that you speckle the barrel with cold blue and submerge in bleach..of couse you need to plug the openings as not to get the bleach in the bore.card down with steel wool till you achieve desired affect....his rifles are very nice!!!!

[keweenaw]

I like the acid etch better than the bleach because I think I can get better control of the process.  Bleach seems to react more with the grain structure of the steel giving a slightly pitted effect.  You don't use strong acid, if I'm starting with straight HCl, I dilute it to 10%, the same with the Acetic acid ( and vinegar is 5% acetic acid so we're not talking strong here).  As Jerry said, phosphoric will also work - you can get that easily at the auto parts store.  In the replies above two different things have been discussed - a total french grey and selective greying.  When I've done single shot rifle actions that I wanted to totally grey after the engraving, I hot blued them and then submerged them in the acid.  I used a strong light and when the blue was gone and the surface minutely frosted, I pulled them out, rinsed immediately with lots of water, dunked them in some baking soda to completely neutralize, and then rinsed lots more.  Because the surface that that point is super clean it will rust almost immediately if the humidity is high so you need to get some oil on it quickly.   Needless to say on all of this the surface of the piece needs to be nearly perfectly polished as any scratches, etc. will be easy to see after the surface treatment.

What this type of greying does is to frost the surface so that light isn't bouncing back  which is what hides the engraving.  It doesn't leave a dark background in the engraving which is what Jerry has done with his selective removal from the surface.  You can take a totally greyed piece when it comes out of the rinse, dry it and wipe some india ink into the engraving and then wipe the surface clean.  The ink will stick quite well.  Once the ink is dry, oil.  This will highlight the engraving.

Tom

[Bruce Bump]

I like the acid etch better than the bleach because I think I can get better control of the process.  Bleach seems to react more with the grain structure of the steel giving a slightly pitted effect.  You don't use strong acid, if I'm starting with straight HCl, I dilute it to 10%, the same with the Acetic acid ( and vinegar is 5% acetic acid so we're not talking strong here).  As Jerry said, phosphoric will also work - you can get that easily at the auto parts store.  In the replies above two different things have been discussed - a total french grey and selective greying.  When I've done single shot rifle actions that I wanted to totally grey after the engraving, I hot blued them and then submerged them in the acid.  I used a strong light and when the blue was gone and the surface minutely frosted, I pulled them out, rinsed immediately with lots of water, dunked them in some baking soda to completely neutralize, and then rinsed lots more.  Because the surface that that point is super clean it will rust almost immediately if the humidity is high so you need to get some oil on it quickly.   Needless to say on all of this the surface of the piece needs to be nearly perfectly polished as any scratches, etc. will be easy to see after the surface treatment.

What this type of greying does is to frost the surface so that light isn't bouncing back  which is what hides the engraving.  It doesn't leave a dark background in the engraving which is what Jerry has done with his selective removal from the surface.  You can take a totally greyed piece when it comes out of the rinse, dry it and wipe some india ink into the engraving and then wipe the surface clean.  The ink will stick quite well.  Once the ink is dry, oil.  This will highlight the engraving.

Tom

Thanks Tom for the details.
I'm learning allot from this forum and appreciate everybodys help

I think I will play with your method on some scraps and then jump in. This is a pirate pistol with some wonderfull engraving and some background removed. I will try to post some of the parts so you guys can see my worries. There is gold also so to make it show up it needs a dark background. India ink may be too dark to look right on it.

[Bill Brockway]

Bruce  -

I hate to show this after Jerry's beautiful example.  This is a French gray which I find to be more easily controllable than the toilet bowl cleaner/ Naval Jelly/ bleach methods.  It involves first blueing the gun by standard slow-rust methods (I use Laurel Mountain Forge bluer/browner, boiling in clear water for 5 minutes between passes).

Then I immerse the parts in a solution of Brownell's Steel White (which is a blue remover.  I suspect oxalic acid), and card the finish with steel wool under water after each pass.  This helps you control the color as you card, and the water also helps prevent after-rusting.

You can vary the number of blueing passes to control the grainy texture of the blue, and you can vary the time in the Steel White to control the tone of the finished job.  I find that about 20 minutes works best for most steels.

Hope this helps.

Bill

[long carabine]

so Naval Jelly will age a barrel?

[Ed Wenger]

     I've had very good luck obtaining a "French Grey" with cold blue and naval jelly.  I use Oxpho-blue then rub back with steel wool and naval jelly.  I've found that you might have to repeat the process a couple times or so to obtain an even finish, but its worked well.  I've also blued with Oxpho-blue then rubbed back with steel wool and WD-40, which gives a similar result.
     If I want to age the barrel, I cold blue, plug the muzzle and touch hole, then immerse in Clorox, not boiled.  It'll look like something off the Titanic when you bring it out and you have to watch it closely so as to not go too far.  Wash in cold water then rub back with steel wool and naval jelly when your happy with the effect.  I know some folks don't like this method because they feel it doesn't give the right effect, but I always thought it looks pretty good.

Ed

[Bruce Bump]

Thanks much guys.
I played around with the Oxpho Blue and diluted it with water. Just a spash of blue in a whole glass of water and it still blues although much less aggressive and not as deep as full strength.
I hand sanded to 1200 grit and cleaned my parts with brake cleaner. I dipped them one at a time in my diluted blueing and let them soak until they were dark. It took a couple minutes. I rinsed with water and used 3M ultra fine pad to polish them back to silver. Repeated 3 times. The parts wouldnt come completely back to bright silver but instead held onto some of the greyish blue tint. The low areas are dark grey/blackish. I soaked them in baking soda and sprayed them with oil. I'm pleased and will try to post some pictures.

Here is my finished gun/knife
I know its not normal but god made me this way. He doesnt make mistakes.