Author Topic: cleaning patch?  (Read 6788 times)

huntmaster80

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cleaning patch?
« on: January 20, 2015, 01:26:39 AM »
So I finally got to shoot my new .45 and I am very pleased with it. After shooting I cleaned it with boiling water until the patches came out clean.  I then ran several dry patches down the barrel to make sure nothing else was in there and they came out clean.  Then I ran a very tight oiled patch down the bore and when pulled back up it had some black on the patch ??? ???.  So I then cleaned it with boiling water again and the dry patches came out clean, but the oiled patch was still dirty.  The bore  appears very clean upon inspection with a light.  Am I doing something wrong, or is this normal?  Sorry for the newbie questions, and thanks for the help!!

Adam

Offline retired fella

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Re: cleaning patch?
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2015, 04:00:57 AM »
Are you truly using boiling water?  Might be some flash rusting.  I have used hot water out of the tap and a bit of Lestoil for years.  No problem.  Boiling seems a bit excessive.  Any other thoughts out there?

Offline drago

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Re: cleaning patch?
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2015, 04:15:38 AM »
The black is not hurting anything but you should use warm water or cold. Then use some WD40 or alcohol to remove any excess water that did'nt wipe out. Check it the next day.

huntmaster80

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Re: cleaning patch?
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2015, 06:10:12 AM »
Yes the water was on the stove in a stainless pot boiling then poured into the barrel.  I checked the barrel this evening and it still looks perfectly clean.  I will run another patch through it when I get home from work tomorrow.  Should I be using a product such as TOW mink oil tallow, or bore butter in place of the balistol to protect the barrel?  Like i said before, I am new to muzzleloading so thank you everyone for helping me with my learning process!

adam

Offline Candle Snuffer

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Re: cleaning patch?
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2015, 06:22:58 AM »
I use Birchwood Casey Sheath Rust Preventive after cleaning my muzzle loaders, inside and out. Haven't had any
rust troubles in 40+ years using this stuff. I could go down stairs right now and run a patch down the bore of any
muzzle loader I own and the patch will come out white. Everyone has something that works best for them, you just
need to experiment and see what works best for you. I'm not a big fan of treating the bore with Bore Butter after
you're done with your cleaning. Good luck, have fun, and enjoy the sport. :)
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Offline PPatch

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Re: cleaning patch?
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2015, 06:42:13 AM »
"boiling water" is your problem. Cold, tepid water, fine. Boiling water causes instant FLASH RUST as soon as you pour it out of the bore.

I learned this the hard way. Water is the perfect solvent for real black powder, I use it all the time, I use cold water right out of the tap (well water) and it cleans fine. Talking spit patched balls, if using oil or any grease as a lube you will need a solvent for that.

dp
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Offline WadePatton

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Re: cleaning patch?
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2015, 08:36:07 AM »
Congrats on makin' smoke.

Cleaning is makin' mud sorta.  

When you get a chance: make a snack and a drink, sit down, relax, and search up all the threads and postings and discussions on cleaning the Longrifle.  That might be what Molly was referring to in post 2 this thread.  
(Moderator's note: I deleted Molly's reply as it offered no useful information, and frankly, it struck me as rude. -Ron)


I only use water (tap warm) and tow followed by oil of some sort.  check within 48.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2015, 09:41:14 PM by Ky-Flinter »
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Offline moleeyes36

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Re: cleaning patch?
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2015, 01:58:44 PM »
Thompson Center created more angst for shooters when they put the "rinse with boiling water" instructions in their manual included with their ML rifles starting in the 1970's.  The need for this has become an urban legend.  As mentioned by others in this thread and in several other threads in the archives on cleaning the bore, you just create flash rust when you use boiling water in the barrel.  Either cold or water no hotter than from the tap will work fine and not cause the flash rust problem.

Mole Eyes

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Offline Daryl

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Re: cleaning patch?
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2015, 07:51:04 PM »
Some barrel steels are more prone to this flash-rusting phenomenon than others - I think 12L14 is on of the barrels prone to this.
A long-time friend of our almost ruined his 42" .40 cal custom barrel through religiously using boiling water- would not stop and ended up with pitting end to end.  We lead-lapped it twice with abrasives embedded in the lap and it's better, but not back perfect, of course.
Since the mid 70's, I've been using cool or cold tap water for cleaning my bores.

First thing I do, is to remove the lock, using a toothbrush in the water, brush all the fouling from it. I wipe it off with a rag, and sometimes use air pressure (hose) to blast the residual water off - but not always.  I set it aside to dry while I clean the barrel.

The barrel comes off the stock- pins, or wedges - no matter - and I use the toothbrush (my wife's  >:() to brush the fouling off the breech of the barrel (just kidding - I use an old brush :D), then dunk the breech of the barrel in the water container. I usually use a 3 pound coffee can, 3/4's full of tap water.

After flushing the water into and out (breech in a container of water) of the barrel, perhaps 20 strokes, I remove the barrel from the water and wipe it dry with a towel.  Them, I patch it out until dry. It usually takes 4 patches for this. I use a jag that is small enough to allow a doubled flannelette patch.  Flannelette is the VERY best for drying or cleaning a bore. Thus, it takes 5 patches normally, sometimes 6 total for the whole job.
The last drying patch comes out clean - if not- repeat, but I've not had to repeat this flushing process - it works.  I LIBERALLY spray WD40 down the barrel until it runs out the nipple seat, or vent - depending - then use the last drying patch to patch out the WD40. The first thrust with a patch blasts WD40 out the vent or nipple seat. You may want to drape a towel or cloth over that breech to prevent spraying WD40 all over the place.

 I run that patch up and down, up and down until no further blasting out the vent happens - 2 or 3 times, then I use that patch to wipe down the outside of the barrel. That patch is ALWAYS pure white - clean!  I again wipe moisture off the lock,  then liberally spray it with WD40, then shake or blow that off and wipe, then replace. I will add here, that I lubricate the lock with silicone axle grease - the WD40 spray does not wash this off for several cleanings. When needed, I replenish the grease.  I use synthetic as it is not readily washed off with WD40, or water, and it stays soft in freezing temps, when petroleum greases get hard.
Daryl

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Offline hanshi

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Re: cleaning patch?
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2015, 09:27:10 PM »
I use cold tap water to clean, alcohol/WD40 and an old hair dryer to make sure it's dry.  I use either Barricade or Break Free CLP to protect the bore.  From time to time I'll run a Scotch Bright patch down the bore when cleaning.  That will really get the black out if there's any left.  Understand, however, that any ML bore should be checked with a patch a day or two later and each week there after for a month then at least once a month from then on.  Watch them same as you would a sick family member.
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Offline Ky-Flinter

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Re: cleaning patch?
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2015, 09:48:44 PM »
..... Should I be using a product such as TOW mink oil tallow, or bore butter in place of the balistol to protect the barrel?  ......

Hi Adam,

Welcome to ALR and muzzleloader shooting!  No need to replace the Balistol, it's good stuff, along with WD40, BC Barricade/Sheath, BreakFree, etc.  All good advice given above on using tap temp or luke warm water, not boiling, and checking the bore in a day or 2.  Have fun!

-Ron
« Last Edit: January 20, 2015, 09:58:51 PM by Ky-Flinter »
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Offline David R. Pennington

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Re: cleaning patch?
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2015, 04:25:49 AM »
I always clean my rifle at the range or in the field after shooting. I never bring a dirty rifle home. I learned that as sure as I do, some dire emergency will await me and my rifle will get neglected. I use nothing but cold water unless it is freezing and then I use alcohol. I never pull the barrel unless I need to pull the breech plug or replace touch hole liner. I always remove the lock. It is cleaned with plain water also. After I dry everything I re oil and reassemble. I use bear oil when I have it on the barrel and a good light lubricating oil on lock internals. I have done this by camp fire light and the car headlights a few times.
VITA BREVIS- ARS LONGA

Offline Dphariss

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Re: cleaning patch?
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2015, 06:21:56 AM »
So I finally got to shoot my new .45 and I am very pleased with it. After shooting I cleaned it with boiling water until the patches came out clean.  I then ran several dry patches down the barrel to make sure nothing else was in there and they came out clean.  Then I ran a very tight oiled patch down the bore and when pulled back up it had some black on the patch ??? ???.  So I then cleaned it with boiling water again and the dry patches came out clean, but the oiled patch was still dirty.  The bore  appears very clean upon inspection with a light.  Am I doing something wrong, or is this normal?  Sorry for the newbie questions, and thanks for the help!!

Adam

If you set the patches with the black on them aside you will almost certainly find them red in the morning as the iron oxide converts from black to red. Use room temp or slightly warm water to clean. Boiling water is a waste of time and causes flash rusting. BP fouling will suck up cold water and liquify. So boiling is not needed. HOWEVER, hot water, not boiling, is better for anything that produces chlorate fouling. But real BP does not produce salt when burnt.

Dan
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Offline Daryl

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Re: cleaning patch?
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2015, 09:42:08 PM »
Good point on the chlorate, Dan, concerning hot water treadment.

I have read that WW1 soldiers as well as States-side hunters & shooters, used to urinate down their bores to soften and flush the chlorate salts left from the corrosive (chlorate) primers.  Unlike the Chlorate primer's miniscule amount of corrosive residue, today's chlorate powders contain up to 17% per volume - Hmmmmm.

Of course, clean water would be needed afterwards, to neutralize the urine's salts and ammonia? Perhaps if a guy has to use that stuff today, the same process would be actually needed?
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V