Restoration of originals

[Dave B]

I was going through my collection of basket case projects and remembering a comment made by Walace Gussler about the work he did on one rifle that he was asked to restore. The brass barreled gun. He was working on the barrel that needed to be lengthed back to its original calculated length He took period brass candle sticks to melt down to make the replacement barrel section from. In the Bivins article in Rifle magazine regarding restoration he was talking about using wood from the period to do repairs to the "Eagle Rifle" he was restoring. Is this a common practice with those of you making restorations on period originals? At the Monroe show  yesterday. I over heard one of the builders talk about how some making period furniture would bury the wood for their furniture in a a horse manure pile for a time to let the wood soak up some of the compounds present making the wood more correct for that Old original look. It seems to be a common thread because I was told by a guy that you bury the uncored cows horn in the same type of manure pile to let the cores loosen up. Never tried either but was curious if any of you have your source for the right kind of wood for doing wood repair on period pieces? Out of the manure pile or other wise?

[Mark Elliott]

Given that I doubt very many guns or tables were buried in manure,   there has to be a better way to age wood.   I can't imagine that I will ever get that desperate for the "right" look.

[rich pierce]

They are hoping they can get someone to try it.

Boiling horns loosens the core.

[Dave B]

Some of the things i hear i wonder if the smoke shiffter or bacon stretcher I was sent after at my first camporee in boy scouts is what is going on.
I try to take some of it with a grain of salt but some times you get hooked by one  or another. I was told that the House bros asked those who needed to take a leek to wizz on the barrels behind the shope to help along the aging that was being done. Could be true. But I doubt it. That chlorox is a workman like way of Geter Done.

Still. What do you guys prefer to use to replace chipped out wood? I have a butt stock that was missing a couple inches of toe and the butt plate being unsupported was at risk of being damaged. The woo was not the white of maple but maybe a curly cherry. this was on a lehigh butt stock with sheathed butt plate return. I was planning on practicing my finish matching on this piece. the Oven cleaner sprayed on wood causes some oxidation and darkening from what I have been told. Maybe give it a try and see what I get.

[T*O*F]

Dave,
Contrary to the idle speculation of some, I had a friend whose business was restoring antique clocks.  He packed his wood in dog @#$%/!! and buried it in his garden to age it.  This was for oak and walnut only, both of which are rich in tannins.

I suspect  the theory behind it is that feces are acid rich from digestive juices.  Burying the wood allows those acids to permeate the wood due to moisture in the soil from rain.  Even without the @#$%/!!, wood will age rapidly if buried.  He left his buried for several months.  Contrary to conventional surface aging which is fake aging with new wood underneath, this will give results deep into the wood.

One can only experiment by burying a couple of 1x4's and observing the results.

[Dave B]

T*O*F  Thank you for that response. I once asked how this  well known builder set his gold nails into the sheet inlays so the counter sinks did not show. He replied that he didnt bother to counter sink the hole The key was keeping the wire and the hole the same size and used toe nail diagonal pliers that ar sharpened on side of the bevel to a knife edge so when the nail was cut from the wire it produce a very flat head on the wire side(the head of the next nail to be cut) and left the now cut nail tip with a chisel point. You didn't need to counter sink the gold because as you drove the gold nail home and it naturally wedged its own counter sink as it wedged its way into the final resting place with a sight swelling of the peaned shank and mushroomed nail head. I was nonplussed and couldn't believe that it was possible there must be more to it.  He explained when done this way as you sand paper the inlay its nail heads vanish. I have yet to try this but Monte Mandarino knows his stuff and the Steel canvas has the particular set of pistols he was working on when I asked the question. They are the holster pistols with the angle and demon themes. These little tips that can make a huge difference in the final products perfection.
 
Back to the  buried wood. Was the clock maker treating planks or smaller dimensional pieces slightly larger than what the project calls for? Several of my pieces are broken through the toe and need in some cases wood replaced in others it is only a matter of re-gluing the broken section.

[T*O*F]

Was the clock maker treating planks or smaller dimensional pieces slightly larger than what the project calls for?

Smaller dimensional pieces.  I don't know that a large plank would work.

[Jim Kibler]

To the original question...  Old wood has gone through many cyclic moisture changes and therefore expansion and contractions.  With each cycle, the wood shrinks some, but in a diminishing way.  So old wood is more dimensionally stable and shrinks less.  If care isn't taken a wood patch may look good when first done, but may shrink or move in some way as the repair ages.  This can also effect glue joints and cause them to become more visible. 

As to the brass repair Wallace did...  Using the old candlesticks was requested by Kindig.  The color didn't match exactly and Wallace said he would have rather tested the barrel and prepared a melt to match the composition.  But he's also said that in retrospect being able to see the repair under inspection isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Jim

[Majorjoel]

In the book "Gunsmithing Tips & Projects" by Wolf there are a few chapters on the subject of restoration. On page 420 John Bivins lays out the details when he restored the John Eagle rifle. A very interesting read with B&W pictures that show what he had to start with and the steps taken to bring the rifle back to it's original splendor.  This paper back book is worth the trouble in finding. Has quite a bit of good information about building muzzle loaders.

[Dave B]

So the next question is where does one find 200 year old maple these days? I have a dresser that my grandfather made when he was in school in the early 1900's. I may get thrashed for cutting of a hind leg to make my rifle repair. How ever if I tiake it from the leg that is in the back corner it may be years before any one is the wiser. 

[E.vonAschwege]

The horse manure thing isn't a gag to make novices do silly things - furniture restorers and fakers have been doing it for a long time.  As for repairs - Jim is right about the difference in expansion and contraction through the seasons.  A new piece of wood can be aged to look old, but after a few seasons the repair will show.  It doesn't have to be 200 years old - even 50-70 year old wood is still going to move significantly less than a new piece.  I built a rifle for a client last year using a piece of maple cut 50 years ago.  It was assembled and shaped in the Oregon spring when humidity is high.  I handled it a few weeks ago at Lewisburg and it hadn't shrunk one bit!  Talk about stable wood - if I could get my hands on more of it I would. 

There's a great early rifle that is attributed to Schreyer, but has had a new piece of wood glued around the lock panel.  In older photos you can see no repair at all - nowadays it has pulled away and there is a sharp seam the whole way around. 
-Eric

[Feltwad]

Always remember on any restoration job of an original restoration should never be carried to far a gun that is over 150 years old should look its age and not something straight of the shelf ,never use modern castings on a restoration job .When you use modern parts to old this is not a restoration but a rebuild which will never look an original
Feltwad

[Dave B]

Great discussion. Some good things here. I have a project that has been on the back burner that was turned off.  I have made a commitment to getting it finally done and out the door. Then the addressing of the basket cases.