Lacome Hawken Rifle in Santa Fe Palace of the Governors Museum

[mahkagari]

Is anyone familiar with this rifle? It belonged to my great great great grandfather Auguste Lacome. It appears to be a .58 caliber half stock with custom pewter nose cap in Hawken style with a single wedge key and wooden under rib. I'm interested in building a copy so I'm gathering any extant information on it.

[mr. no gold]

The gun you write about was on public display about three years ago when I visited the Palacio. It is a nice rifle, but something in the corner of my mind says that there were some oddities about it. Don't recall now, maybe refinished, barrel cut back a bit, and I may be confusing it with the one up in Taos. Too, long ago for an old man to get it 100% right.
Barring the chance to go to Santa Fe and get the information you want first hand, phone the curator of the museum in the Palace to start the process of getting what you need. I am sure that they would be highly gratified to talk with you as you will no doubt have family information that they would want; diaries, genealogies, old photographs, family held items, and so on. Good luck, yours is a noble cause.
Dick

[mahkagari]

The gun you write about was on public display about three years ago when I visited the Palacio. It is a nice rifle, but something in the corner of my mind says that there were some oddities about it.

Yeah, the wooden rib and the pewter nose cap is what has struck most people as an aftermarket custom repair.
 

Barring the chance to go to Santa Fe and get the information you want first hand, phone the curator of the museum in the Palace to start the process of getting what you need. I am sure that they would be highly gratified to talk with you as you will no doubt have family information that they would want; diaries, genealogies, old photographs, family held items, and so on. Good luck, yours is a noble cause.

Yep, my sister just got back a couple of months ago after getting copies of what they had on his papers in their archives that were donated by his son nigh on a hundred years ago. We've spent the time since then piecing it together. Trick is, unless the curator knows what they're looking at, not a whole lot of of information specific to the model, barrel length and diameter, where to look for markings, etc. Next step would be to get into the case and actually take some measurements. That might be a long shot.

Or if there is someone who knows antique arms and is familiar with that rifle in particular, which brings me here to you fine people.

[mr. no gold]

I found that the pieces that I expressed an interest in seeing while in New Mexico were made available for handling on prior arrangement. That is the Carson gun up in Taos at his home, the Gordon collection in Santa Fe, and the Carson rifle at the Santa Fe Masonic hall. Wouldn't surprise me if the folks in the Palace were every bit as hospitable.
Dick

[mahkagari]

I found that the pieces that I expressed an interest in seeing while in New Mexico were made available for handling on prior arrangement. That is the Carson gun up in Taos at his home, the Gordon collection in Santa Fe, and the Carson rifle at the Santa Fe Masonic hall. Wouldn't surprise me if the folks in the Palace were every bit as hospitable.
Dick

That's good to know. I'm going to do a Lyman or Traditions kit for practice and then once that is done, I'll be in better position to know what I need to see inside the case.

[Roger B]

If this is the rifle I'm thinking about, it has definitely been shortened from a full stock.  The new under rib is wood, and the full stock rod ferrules are inlet and pinned into it just as they were on the original full stock.  I looked really hard through the display glass but could not see any maker's marks.  The style is definitely Hawken, which makes me wonder if this was not one of the really late rifles that were left unmarked.  Unfortunately, I can't remember much else about it.  It would be a fun rifle to replicate.
Roger B.

[mahkagari]

If this is the rifle I'm thinking about, it has definitely been shortened from a full stock.  The new under rib is wood, and the full stock rod ferrules are inlet and pinned into it just as they were on the original full stock.  

That would make sense. The barrel wedge looks much more like the full stock than any of the single wedges to my untrained eye.

The style is definitely Hawken, which makes me wonder if this was not one of the really late rifles that were left unmarked.  

Any more info on those later models? He died in 1888. May have had this rifle as early as 1850, but as Carson went through several throughout his life, it's reasonable to assume Lacome did as well.

Here's a pic.

[mahkagari]

Update on this rifle. I was able to arrange with the museum to examine it and take measurements.

As far as I've been able to identify, it is a .58 Hawken fullstock percussion cap with a 36" straight barrel with no taper.

The cheekpiece is square but it has a groove in it. I think that is more customary of the early flintlocks than percussion cap.

I don't plan to cut the stock down. The replica will be closer to when the rifle was "new". I'd prefer to use the original full stock for the correct key placement than a shorter stock.

The length of pull from the deepest part of the curve on the butt to the front trigger is 13 5/8". The rear sight looks welded, but the front sight looks aftermarket made from bone and copper.

It looks like Don Stith has the appropriate parts but his site is currently down. When I looked before, his fullstocks seemed to have a "deeper" curve around the cheekpiece than the museum piece.

Any input/advice on this project? Recommendations on where to get parts?

[smylee grouch]

Was the butt plate made from two pieces? What name or other stampings  are on the gun?

[mahkagari]

No maker marks anywhere. The only other thing than plain metal is some tool marks at the base of the barrel that look like they're from a vise, possibly while installing the breech plug.

The butt plate is two pieces. One that goes over the top and back of the butt and then one on the bottom on the toe.