Question for Teflon patching users

[moleeyes36]

Some of us old guys long time shooters were jawing at the range about Teflon patching.  Though most of us have been shooting MLs for many years, none of us use Teflon patching.  I know a lot of folks use Teflon patching and swear by the stuff.  The question is about keeping the fouling soft with no patch lube.  Do you have to clean between shoots by running a wet and then a dry patch (or patches) down the barrel or some similar method?

Mole Eyes

[BJH]

One of our club members was a Teflon patch user, he wiped after every shot. And used simple green soap spritzed on the patch also. He is tough to beat on paper targets. I think he's back to using regular patch material now. BJH

[Frizzen]

I have been using it for over 40 years. I always  wipe between shots.

[Kermit]

Seems to me it comes down to the best possible shooting vs good enough shooting. If you want to compete with guys like Phil, teflon and wiping is probably what you want.

[moleeyes36]

Seems to me it comes down to the best possible shooting vs good enough shooting. If you want to compete with guys like Phil, teflon and wiping is probably what you want.

To compete with guys like Phil, as a minimum, just for starters I'd need divine intervention  .  We were just curious about how guys that shoot Teflon patching go about keeping the fouling soft (wiping between shots, wetting the Teflon patch, etc.).

Mole Eyes

[hudson]

Hi guys, new to form and hope not to be a pain. My understanding on Teflon is it is used without lube and quire tight ball/patch combination in competition, cleaning after each shot required. I started using it a number of years ago with a rifle that just didn't like anything else. I have used it with various lubes with good luck. I will add here that some brands the Teflon will dissolve with lube. The big advantage is using a very tight patch/ball combination. In a .50 I use a .500 ball and .015 patch. Another .50 I use .020 patch. In a .54 I use .535/.020, all with a couple of different lubes. Barrels are coned, loading is relative easy and cleaning between shots generally not required. Hope this helps.

[bob in the woods]

My .54 target rifle [ under hammer ] has won a number of matches. It shoots better than I do, and I mean it's got a few 50  4 x's to it's credit .   Green Mountain barrel,  Green Mountain .540 mould, and my standard lube and patching.   Some swear by the teflon patching material, but it's never appealed to me, and never saw the need.  There's no magic patching IMO, and folks shooting teflon stuff aren't unbeatable. 

[smallpatch]

I've been through the Teflon phase, and I'm over it.

The idea of Teflon is consistency.  Clean between shots and use dry.  Clean bore, No,liquid to contaminate powder=more consistent.

Way too much trouble. But then, I'm not that good for it to make a difference.

[smylee grouch]

I shoot a ball 10/1000 over bore size, load through a false muzzle, use teflon for that gun but use 100% cotton lubed with mink oil/bear lard for all my hunting and trail walk shooting.  The teflon is loaded dry and I clean between shots.

[Frizzen]

This was shot at 50 yds with Teflon. There are two shots in the practice which makes seven shots in all.
If this was on just one target it would just be one hole.

[WadePatton]

Must have been windy...



 

yeah, folks have no idea how well BP can shoot.  Good shootin' Frizz!

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

That, in my limited experience, is arguably the best muzzle loading rifle target I have ever seen.

[P.W.Berkuta]

This was shot at 50 yds with Teflon. There are two shots in the practice which makes seven shots in all.
If this was on just one target it would just be one hole.

GREAT shooting Phil --- you MUST have the eyes of a hawk and the nerve of Superman . I'd have a rough time doing that with a .45 cal pencil at 1" away from target .

[bgf]

I've tried it in my chunk gun.  It improves groups noticeably, but it requires good consistent wiping between shots, at least two patches, wet then dry.  The thicker the base material the better mostly.  I can get close with thick non Teflon material, but it also requires wiping for best accuracy and I need to be really careful with the wetness of the patch, too little or too much lube causes fliers.

Long term, I'm undecided.  The Teflon is easier to use when last bit of accuracy can be taken advantage of, but it requires extra step between shots and I worry about long term buildup without some sort of strong solvent during cleaning.  When I convert my chunk gun to .50 cal., I will reevaluate.  I think many if not most chunk shooters use Teflon, but it is not allowed in strict table matches and I've seen and read about some good strings without it.

[Bob Roller]

This was shot at 50 yds with Teflon. There are two shots in the practice which makes seven shots in all.
If this was on just one target it would just be one hole.

GREAT shooting Phil --- you MUST have the eyes of a hawk and the nerve of Superman . I'd have a rough time doing that with a .45 cal pencil at 1" away from target .

In the Fall of 1962,I shot a 50x 5X,one hole group with an Alex Henry barreled Whitworth @ 100 yards on the old Armco Steel Company range in Kentucky. NEVER,EVER did it again with anything including the Whitworth.
I kept that target for years until it disintegrated on the wall of my shop.

Bob Roller

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Phil:  if I may ask, did you use aperture sights?

[Leatherbark]

I've seen guys and gals at Friendship that shoot targets like that use a rifle with a 1-1/2 inch thick barrel about 48 inches long with about 150 grains of powder and aperture sights. A gal let me shoot hers once. You used the same hold at 100 that you did at 50 yards.  Darn gun weighed about 20 pounds or so. I believe it was in an unlimited class.

Anyway the Teflon patch needs a bore size ball an a small starter to seat it in the bore. The Teflon shooters at my club use a .451 to a .454 ball in there 45 rifles and a .400 ball with their 40 caliber rifles.

I believe it needs the oversize ball and a tight load to burn cleanly as I tried it in a .54 rifle once with a .530 ball and the rifle fouled so bad after one shot I had a bear of a time swabbing the bore to load again.  It was almost like shooting blanks only as it fouled so bad.

There is no denying though if your out for the tightest group possible then Teflon is the way to go but carry a hammer.

Bob

[Frizzen]

I did not shoot  this target. It was shot last year at Friendship. I forget the guy's name.

[moleeyes36]

I'm really not interested in trying Teflon patching myself as all my rifles using a tight fitting ball and patch (wet patch) will shoot far better than I can shoot them.  I really admire those folks that can shoot targets like Phil posted.  But at my age and with my eye sight (after all my nickname is Mole Eyes) that just isn't going to happen.  Some of us were just curious as to what method Teflon patch users employed to keep the fouling soft.  Thanks.

Mole Eyes

[Daryl]

Just thought I would add to this thread and to the excellent target Phil posted.  It is one thing to shoot a group that has 5 balls or bullets making a single hole that is less than 2 balls wide outside to outside - as this target would show if they were stacked.  That would be a .5" or less group for 5 shots.

 Again, it is one thing to shoot a group like that, but it is ENTIRELY a different animal and much more difficult task to put a ball through the centre of each of 5 (6 in this case) separate bullseyes on the same page.

Nice- thanks for posting it, Phil.

[Avlrc]

I did not shoot  this target. It was shot last year at Friendship. I forget the guy's name.

How could you possibly forget the name of the person who could shoot like that? 

[Daryl]

I did not shoot  this target. It was shot last year at Friendship. I forget the guy's name.

How could you possibly forget the name of the person who could shoot like that? 

I suspect targets like this are posted in the unlimited shoots, every year at Friendship.
 
Back in the 70's, the cross-stick buffalo matches produced similar targets. If they still have that match, I would expect nothing different.

Groups in the 1/2" range are not difficult with good sights or really good eyes and open sights at 50 yards using simple patched round balls.

Oversized balls and Teflon is not needed. However - good sights, good loading proceedures and good bench technique are all required.

Again, to put a hole through each X of 5  bullseyes on a single target IS most difficult with a hunting-type rifle, regardless the sights. Shooting a similar sized group of the compilation is not as difficult.

[Tony N]

This was shot at 50 yds with Teflon. There are two shots in the practice which makes seven shots in all.
If this was on just one target it would just be one hole.

Wow! Very nice!

~Tony