Author Topic: 19th Century MO Gunsmiths; B. Bahn and Bros.  (Read 6688 times)

ChrisB28

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19th Century MO Gunsmiths; B. Bahn and Bros.
« on: July 02, 2015, 07:17:43 PM »
Wondering if anyone knows where I can find a book on MO gunsmiths of the 19th century.  I'm particularly interested in finding info on, and locating/purchasing rifles made by, B. Bahn & Bros. (Bernard and George William Bahn, gunsmiths) of Cape Girardeau, MO.  Thanks.

Offline Don Stith

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Re: 19th Century MO Gunsmiths; B. Bahn and Bros.
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2015, 02:32:37 AM »
Missouri Gunsmiths to 1900  by Victor A Paul. It was published in 1999


gooseripper

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Re: 19th Century MO Gunsmiths; B. Bahn and Bros.
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2016, 01:25:03 AM »
I have one I'll sell and I just messaged you

ChrisB28

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Re: 19th Century MO Gunsmiths; B. Bahn and Bros.
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2016, 12:17:18 AM »
HI Gooseripper:  I just now saw your post, and didn't get your message for some reason.  Still have a Bahn rifle for sale?

Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: 19th Century MO Gunsmiths; B. Bahn and Bros.
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2016, 12:31:12 AM »


Dr Whisker has that book forsale here http://americanlongrifles.org/Books_frame.htm
without the high shipping cost!
Dennis
"I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend" - Thomas Jefferson

ChrisB28

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Re: 19th Century MO Gunsmiths; B. Bahn and Bros.
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2018, 08:50:43 PM »
Hi - Do you still have a B Bahn and Brother ball-and-cap Rifle, and is it potentially for sale.  If so, please email or text me (cb28@sbcglobal.net; 314-749-6614).  Thx.

directly

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Re: 19th Century MO Gunsmiths; B. Bahn and Bros.
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2020, 05:16:08 AM »
Are there price ranges established for the Bahn rifles if looking to buy ? ?--also is there any information on Wagner rifles made in Jackson Missouri--thanks

Offline Avlrc

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Re: 19th Century MO Gunsmiths; B. Bahn and Bros.
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2020, 07:56:40 PM »
Here is a Bahn marked rifle,
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/868363732

directly

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Re: 19th Century MO Gunsmiths; B. Bahn and Bros.
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2020, 12:55:41 AM »
Thanks for the link on Bahn rifle-- , I will contact the seller and see if there is any wiggle room  ??--thanks

directly

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Question--stamped name the gunsmith or the owners name?-percussion rifle
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2020, 02:26:18 AM »
st
 


Question--is this stamped name the gunsmith name or the owners name?--thanks

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: 19th Century MO Gunsmiths; B. Bahn and Bros.
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2020, 04:55:16 PM »
 It’s usually the gunsmiths name, and occasionally the barrel makers name is stamped on the barrel. Nobody is going to have a stamp made to mark one or two rifles, so owners, and low production gunsmiths, names are generally engraved, rather than stamped.

  Hungry Horse

directly

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D Hartkopp
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2020, 08:04:45 PM »
Checking the list of US Percussion makers this name (D. Hartkopp)  isn't listed, is this common --thanks

Offline Avlrc

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Re: 19th Century MO Gunsmiths; B. Bahn and Bros.
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2020, 08:25:33 PM »
Could not find it in Summers either.  Post pictures of the entire rifle and maybe someone can identify  the area or state which it was made.  Possible they  may be info on him in a state book of gunsmiths. 

directly

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D Hartkopp stamped barrel
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2020, 08:30:53 PM »
D Hartkopp rifle --the lock appears to have a deer hand etched into the rear on the lock plate. --any ideals?-also does cleaning the plate hurt its originality--kind of neat somone used a indian head penny to fill in a sight slot -thanks again



« Last Edit: June 18, 2020, 08:49:23 PM by directly »

directly

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D Hartkopp stamped barrel
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2020, 08:48:38 PM »
I took a couple pictures hopes these help==??--






how to google a photo

Offline WESTbury

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Re: D Hartkopp stamped barrel
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2020, 08:53:10 PM »
does cleaning the plate hurt its originality[

Don't clean any area where there is any kind of patina, etc, etc.
"We are not about to send American Boys 9 to 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian Boys ought to be doing for themselves."
President Lyndon B. Johnson October 21, 1964

directly

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Cleaning?
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2020, 07:27:58 PM »
I will leave the patina alone--actually a very nice looking antique percussion rifle as found-(any ideal of approximate values?)-thanks 

P/S picked up a very nice original Bahn Bros rifle yesterday --------

Offline WESTbury

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Re: 19th Century MO Gunsmiths; B. Bahn and Bros.
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2020, 09:44:20 PM »
Sounds like you're on a roll! You could become the "Hunt Brothers" of Bahn rifles.  ;)

Thanks for sharing the pictures.
"We are not about to send American Boys 9 to 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian Boys ought to be doing for themselves."
President Lyndon B. Johnson October 21, 1964

directly

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Antique oil painting showing Chief with his percussion rifle
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2020, 12:12:56 AM »
The person who owned the D. Hartkoff rifle with the Indian head penny offered me a old oil painting they claim went with the rifle showing a Indian Chief holding a percussion rifle. I can confirm the original oil painting is probably period --my questions should I pursue --in any event a cool combo? (would be difficult to prove the Chief actually owned the rifle, but its still interesting in any event?)

« Last Edit: June 22, 2020, 12:55:51 AM by directly »

Offline Tanselman

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Re: 19th Century MO Gunsmiths; B. Bahn and Bros.
« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2020, 02:01:01 AM »
Before putting a lot of effort into trying to "connect" the painting and rifle, I would suggest taking the painting to an art gallery that sells both new and older art, and have an expert look at the canvas, painting style, frame and stretchers, etc., and date the painting for you. The plastic film over the painting makes viewing it a little uncertain, but the style of frame, vibrant colors, and style of painting suggests 20th century to me. Shelby Gallien

directly

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Indian painting
« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2020, 02:27:32 AM »
Before putting a lot of effort into trying to "connect" the painting and rifle, I would suggest taking the painting to an art gallery that sells both new and older art, and have an expert look at the canvas, painting style, frame and stretchers, etc., and date the painting for you. The plastic film over the painting makes viewing it a little uncertain, but the style of frame, vibrant colors, and style of painting suggests 20th century to me. Shelby Gallien
[/quote]

***Good suggestion***--Correct the frame isn't original to the painting, -I will use your advise-thanks for the input--stay tuned

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: 19th Century MO Gunsmiths; B. Bahn and Bros.
« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2020, 06:51:05 PM »
 The use of Indian head pennies, and other coins of small denomination for filler material for unused dovetails is actually fairly common. I’ve seen several used for this purpose, and am often left pondering what the importance is of the design, or date lift showing.

  Hungry Horse

Offline Curt J

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Re: 19th Century MO Gunsmiths; B. Bahn and Bros.
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2020, 11:00:03 PM »
I suspect that the D. Hartkopp  rifle was made by the gunsmith that Vic Paul listed in his book, MISSOURI GUNSMITHS TO 1900 as Daniel "Hartkoff". He was listed in New London, Ralls County, Missouri in an 1867/68 directory, and in Fredericktown, Madison County, Missouri in an 1885/86 directory. It is not unusual for surnames to be misspelled in the old directories.