Please help me figure out where a barrel was made

[Mark Elliott]

I have been repairing/conserving a half-stock percussion rifle restocked in Columbus, Indiana in 1860 by George W. Tinsley per family documention.   On examination, the barrel appears to have been shortened and the set triggers have been recycled.   Family history says that the original rifle was a flintlock and converted to percussion with the restocking.   Family history also says that the original rifle was used in battle in 1794.   I have a hard time buying the original rifle was that old.  

In any case, the barrel is a little under 40" long, 7/8" at the breech and muzzle and 27/32 at the waist.   It is about 38 caliber and the muzzle is decorated with punched dots and file work to the lands.   I have attached two photos of the breech.  There is the remnant of an engraved script signature.    I am hoping that someone might recognize the tang profile and/or signature in order to let me know where or who made this barrel.  

The reason I ask, other than curiosity, is that the owner wants me to recreate the original flintlock rifle.    Based on what I can see and family history,  I am thinking the original rifle might have been made in West VA or Ohio, but that is just a SWAG.   Any more educated SWAGs would be appreciated.
















Thanks for any help you can provide.

[Gaeckle]

Is there any scale or hammer marks on the bottom of the barrel? Are there any open or filled dove tails on the barrel? Lastly, do you see any grind marks (faint) on the bottom of the barrel?

It just may be that the barrel came from a barrel mill, a production barrel so to speak, just like what we can purchase from modern day makers.

If it were re-purposed (a common practice) the barrel will often show where older dovetails were, sometimes filled, sometimes not. And it also may be that the plug is forged, where as the barrel was not (I have a couple of those)

Then again, it just may be that the barrel was always a halfstock used barrel, it is hard to tell from just the pictures provided.

Orgin? Could be anywhere from the east coast  to just about anywhere. If it was a rifle made in Ohio the maker should (but that's not always the case) be indexed somewhere in one of the Ohio Longrifle series.

[Cory Joe Stewart]

Mr. Elliot,

I cannot answer your question, but I have one for you.  Can you tell how the underrib is attached?

Coryjoe

[Dennis Glazener]

Coryjoe,
I once had a Gillespie barrel that had been re-purposed for a half-stock rifle. It still had a hollow rib on it. The rib was held on with screws that went through the hollow rib and into dovetail inserts that were tapped for the screws. They appeared to use 2 of the old dovetails and 1 new one had been cut.

The dovetails were fairly deep (big heavy barrel with plenty of wall thickness) probably at least .065 or .075. I assume he made the inserts for the dovetails then clamped the rib on the barrel and drilled through the rib and far enough into the dovetail insert to mark where the hole should be. Then removed the dovetail insert and finished drilling and tapped it for the screw.
Dennis

[Mark Elliott]

The bottom of the barrel is as hammered and  relatively smooth.   I don't see the rough filing or grinding I see on some 19th century  barrels.   I guess that means the barrel was smith made.   

The rib is hollow and soldered on with lead solder.

 I looked very carefully, and I cannot find any filled dovetails.  There is only one dovetail on the bottom with a brass tenon.    As best as I can tell, this barrel was always used on a half stock. 

[T*O*F]

May I suggest that you put a bit of penetrating oil in the signature and then burnish it with the end of a popsicle stick.  This doesn't harm the existing finish but will loosen grunge embedded in the engraving.  Then dry it off and rub the signature with white or yellow chalk and photograph it at about a 75 degree angle.  Oft times it will make the signature readable.  This is similar to the process used where you have very tall words that are unreadable when looked at directly, but if held at a low angle will become so.  I've used it many times.

[Mark Elliott]

Below is a scan of a rubbing of the signature to which I modified the tone map to show the signature better.    I still can't make out a full name but I think I see a D and a C as capital letters.   What do the rest of you see?   Could the last name be Clark?

[Avlrc]

When I seen your post this morning, I thought the name looked like Clark. Just looking @ it real quick.

[Dennis Glazener]

It looks like D Clark to me, but I never heard of him.
Dennis

[Joey R]

Tanselman may weigh in.

[Cory Joe Stewart]

Coryjoe,
I once had a Gillespie barrel that had been re-purposed for a half-stock rifle. It still had a hollow rib on it. The rib was held on with screws that went through the hollow rib and into dovetail inserts that were tapped for the screws. They appeared to use 2 of the old dovetails and 1 new one had been cut.

The dovetails were fairly deep (big heavy barrel with plenty of wall thickness) probably at least .065 or .075. I assume he made the inserts for the dovetails then clamped the rib on the barrel and drilled through the rib and far enough into the dovetail insert to mark where the hole should be. Then removed the dovetail insert and finished drilling and tapped it for the screw.
Dennis

I like that idea Dennis.  I think that is the method I will use.

[Mark Elliott]

Given that family history and guns I can find with similar tangs,  i am thinking this barrel originally came from WVA or OH, maybe made by someone named Clark.   Assuming all this was true (a big assumption),   where could I find photos of half stock flintlocks made in OH or West VA or possibly western PA?    None of my references had such guns. 

[Avlrc]

An original WV half stock flintlock would be a rarity. The only half stocks that I see from WV that are flintlock, were erroneously converted to such by some present day collector. Not saying they are not any, just a rarity. I will look in the Ohio books today and see if there is any, you also might try  searching    http://www.aolrc.org/ ,under "publications"  maybe Ohio has a few.

[Mark Elliott]

Avirc,  that web site was very helpful.  

[SWVAMNTSmith]

Is there any possibility the Left side of the 'D' is a loop of a 'J' and the Right side of the 'D' is the outside of an 'H' ??

Just offering up some different ideas on the variations I have seen in signatures and initials. Originally I thought that the barrel might have been a 'Pennypacker' or one of the variations of, but I DO see the hammer/forging on the bottom. Also the spots around the muzzle.

The other thing I might believe, is that given the signature's location SO close to the tang, the barrel appears to have been shortened.

I have a very fine flint to percussion half stock in iron similar to the description of this one, with similar peices of the puzzle.

[Mark Elliott]

With regard to the signature, anything is possible.  After finding an article on James Clark rifles showing a signature,  i am working on the assumption that the signatures are a match.   So are the barrel tangs and the trigger guard on the complete rifle I have.   Perhaps, all the mounts from the original rifle were restocked.   I had been working on the assumption that only the barrel and triggers had been restocked.   It is starting to look like an Ohio made rifle was restocked 30 years later in Indiana.