Author Topic: Impressive Longrifles (Read 9832 times)

Majorjoel · « **on:** January 15, 2016, 05:19:14 PM »

I have never heard of Kelly Kinzle, but here are a couple of very impressive longrifle's by gunsmiths we all are familiar with. They also come with impressive asking prices! I thought everyone would enjoy the viewing! http://www.kellykinzleantiques.com/firearms.html Just click on each picture for all the details.

Majorjoel · « **Reply #1 on:** January 15, 2016, 05:45:51 PM »

My alternate title for this topic was......If I'd of won the Powerball lottery.......

oldtravler61 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 15, 2016, 06:57:28 PM »

Very impressive firearms. Indeed !! Wife said sorry but there over my weekly allowance. Lol

gibster · « **Reply #3 on:** January 16, 2016, 01:41:33 AM »

The Jacob Young rifle is not what you typically think of when thinking of Tennessee rifles. I wonder what the original owner paid for it compared to what they are asking for it today. A couple of zeros past my price range.

Buck · « **Reply #4 on:** January 16, 2016, 02:56:01 AM »

Nice stuff, GOD bless him if he gets what he's asking.
Buck

Molly · « **Reply #5 on:** January 16, 2016, 03:58:54 PM »

Great firearms I guess. Restored?? Hard to imagine survival to 2016 in that condition? Precious few buyers at those prices and given the trend of the markets today those with that kind of $$ are maybe not ready to go out and spend it on a rifle. Of course I guess Donald still might be able to afford it.

Shreckmeister · « **Reply #6 on:** January 16, 2016, 04:28:10 PM »

Any thoughts on the font of the signature on the lock?

Big Wolf · « **Reply #7 on:** January 16, 2016, 05:38:00 PM »

Kelly Kinzle is one of the premier antique furniture and antique gun dealers in the country. He recently sold an identified French and Indian War period pipe tomahawk for over a million dollars. I guess there are still people out there with money.

JBJ · « **Reply #8 on:** January 16, 2016, 05:49:44 PM »

Shreck poses an interesting question. Clearly a stamped signiture as the serifs on the letters are part of the stamping and not added as would be done by engraving the signature. So when were stamps of this font style available?

michaelB. · « **Reply #9 on:** January 16, 2016, 06:23:28 PM »

ALL zeros past my price range

JTR · « **Reply #10 on:** January 16, 2016, 08:27:05 PM »

Maybe get a look at them in June, huh?
John

ddoyle · « **Reply #11 on:** January 17, 2016, 06:17:55 AM »

It is a good thing the most accomplished builders on this board are ethical men cause with those valuations forgery starts to become a concern!

Notice how thick the gold is in that pan!

Buck · « **Reply #12 on:** January 17, 2016, 04:04:36 PM »

An interesting detail on the lock is the Masonic Symbol, note that it depicts the "right leg" of the compass behind the square. His dating of the piece might even be conservative. I'm not schooled on Jacob Young so I don't know when he worked, but it could be slightly earlier than he thinks.
Buck

Majorjoel · « **Reply #13 on:** January 17, 2016, 04:57:52 PM »

Careful there Noel, you might just help the seller add another 10 spot to his asking price!

Although the Young piece may be tipping the scales on what most of us consider a reasonable selling price, I for one would like to see fine original Kentucky rifle's go for sums that are "up there". Especially after seeing what many late mass produced Colts, Winchesters, and some 20th century paintings are getting these days. Fine art is what they truly represent.

Buck · « **Reply #14 on:** January 17, 2016, 11:52:28 PM »

As I said before if he get's what he's asking God bless him. I like both rifles, but they are slightly out of my range.
Buck

Molly · « **Reply #15 on:** January 18, 2016, 06:16:37 PM »

It is interesting to note the price variations between the longrifle and the "mass produced" Colts, Winchesters etc. Why is that? I think it's just a reflection of what I'll call mass appeal and broad based interest in the period of say 1855 to 1895 and actually even well beyond that in some cases. Guns of the earlier period seem to be viewed as novel, even beautiful art but people just don't connect to them or the period. "Cowboys" (and cowgirls) on the other hand, seem to still be popular today. Ask your typical firearms enthusiast what they would really like to have in their collection today.
Responses will vary wildly but few will mention a KY style firearm.

lexington1 · « **Reply #16 on:** January 18, 2016, 09:22:22 PM »

Most people today would want an AR15 in their collection. However this isn't an AR15 forum and I doubt you would get the same response from folks who frequent this board. So what's your point?

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #17 on:** January 18, 2016, 11:28:01 PM »

I think Molly has a valid point. We, as builders and collectors are very passionate about our longrifle. But we are not the norm. The longrifle is also not truly appreciated for its art component, and that each piece is a one-of-a-kind work.

When you get into the mass produced guns, there are certain 'collectible' ones, ones with limited production, rare, or otherwise. Why doesn't the longrifle, which is even rarer by definition, have the same appeal to collectors on a broader basis?

rich pierce · « **Reply #18 on:** January 19, 2016, 01:23:55 AM »

I am guessing that "brand" has a lot to do with it, as well as "story". Add in the time period of interest and availability and visibility and now we might be getting somewhere. The "Kentucky" rifle is not a brand like famous models of mass produced cowboy guns. It's a bit easier to know a bit about collecting mass produced guns of a specific model than to know the worth of a J P Beck conpared to many other Kentucky rifles made within 50 miles and 50 years. Plus we are more likely to see firearms in the Civil War, cowboy, or modern wars eras in movies than a Kentucky.

We spiked an interest in the years leading up to and following the Bicentennial. At least that's when I got the bug.

Buck · « **Reply #19 on:** January 19, 2016, 02:39:27 AM »

Molly, I ask the same whenever you post, what is your point? Do you ever bring anything constructive to the discussion or are you here to break rocks? It's obvious that the values are in the toilet at the present time but how about something constructive regarding the makers or the details of the rifles? Anything regarding that?
Buck

bama · « **Reply #20 on:** January 23, 2016, 04:52:56 PM »

The Jacob Young rifle is a truly fine rifle and is in excellent shape, I have seen and held this rifle personally. Current thinking on Jacob Young is that he was either an apprentice or a contemporary to Thomas Simpson. These two gunsmiths are the key smiths in what is being called the Cumberland School which is a area in north central Tennessee. Mel Hankla and Gill Sherril have written articles on these two builders. There are only a couple of rifles by each of these builders known to exist and all are grand rifles. Mel mentioned that Frank House is going to have an Iron mounted that was made by Jacob Young at his show in Feburary. I saw this rifle at the CLA show a couple of years ago and it is a very well made rifle with nice styling but more in style with what you think of when you think of Iron mounted Tennessee rifles. This rifle also has the stamped signature, I can't remember if it is on the lock or the barrel, I will have to go back and look at my pictures.

Mel's Thomas Simpson is dated 1791, mine is dated 1803. Stylistically I feel these two rifles are a little earlier than this rifle by Jacob Young. There are a lot of the design features on this Young rifle that are very similar to the Simpson rifles. The patch box, side plate, trigger guard and triggers are related to the ones used by Simpson. The patch box on all of these rifles are cast and all are very similar in design but these features on the Young rifle have slight design changes or refinements that make me think that the Young is later than the 1803 rifle.

bama · « **Reply #21 on:** January 23, 2016, 07:09:14 PM »

Here is a photo of the signature on the Iron mounted gun by Jacob Young. On the lock you can clearly see Jacob but the Young was obliterated when the lock was converted to percusion. Forunately Jacob signed the barrel in script so we can assume Young was on the lock also.

bob in the woods · « **Reply #22 on:** January 23, 2016, 08:54:17 PM »

Questions re the F. Sell rifle.....1st, it looks a bit "thick" through the wrist. Is this a feature of his rifles ?
2nd...why is the barrel inlay with signature so uneven /off centre etc when the other inlays and matchbox etc are so well done ? It just seems odd to me.

Ian Pratt · « **Reply #23 on:** January 28, 2016, 02:39:32 AM »

I am fairly certain that the iron mounted Young rifle is also stamped on the set trigger plate. Will look for a photo, pretty sure I have one.

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Author Topic: Impressive Longrifles (Read 9832 times)

Big Wolf

michaelB.

ddoyle