Seconds Stocks or Blanks?

[toddsndrsn]

I'm getting ready to start my first build.  I may have gone about this without thinking this through however it's too late to turn back since I have a kit from Cabin Creek on the way.  The one thing that has been bothering me is that I have never taken a chisel to wood.  The closest thing to wood working I have ever done was building a pigeon coop which actually came out quite nicely, but that was with an entirely different set of tools.  I'm looking for stocks or blanks that aren't good enough to build a gun out of, but are good enough to practice on.  Any ideas on where a guy can find such a piece or two of wood?  Or would some of you more seasoned folks consider this an unnecessary concern?  I generally pick up on things fairly quickly with a good DIY guide. 

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Your best teacher is going to be experience.  You get experience by doing it yourself.  There are a bunch of us born around the middle of the last century that did not have the benefits of the internet, an instruction book, or a mentor to show us the way.  Just make a commitment to do your best, step out on the limb and gain some experience.  Your first effort does not have to be perfect, nor will it be.  And that is ok!  Strive for perfection if that is important to you, but take a chance.  You will learn very quickly, and your satisfaction will be at the top of the ladder.

[FALout]

Just go for it.  I believe that by using a good piece of wood forces you to think about what you are doing and what has to done next. 

[Boompa]

  Be patient and make no assumptions.  Try to think 2-3 moves ahead.  On a kit use sand paper and scrapers more than the chisel.

[oldtravler61]

This is a piece of advice given to me by a very good craftsman. Who built furniture. Patience,patience and more. When you get in a hurry or flustered walk away. Come back to it another day. An yes your going to make mistakes but that's how you learn. Listen to the people here that know (I'm learning too) ask questions an listen. THEY KNOW WHAT THEY SAY. Good luck an welcome to the madness!

[Ky-Flinter]

Hi Todd,

Welcome to ALR.  I'm going to buck the trend a little.  Since you've never used a chisel, and probably not a rasp, or scraper, it wouldn't be a bad idea to get a piece of maple (if that's what your stock will be) to practice on and get a feel for the tools.  Your practice piece doesn't have to be an actual gun stock.  Is there a Woodcraft store near you?  If not, they do mail order.  You could get a couple of small pieces of maple for a few bucks.

If you don't have one already, get a book on building longrifles.  My favorite is "Recreating the American Longrifle" by William Buchele, but there are others.  Some of the steps will be different when building from a kit, but it's good info to know.

Then, as the other fellows have said, Jump in!  If you get stuck, use the search function here on ALR, someone has probably encountered the same problem.  If you don't find the answer, ask away.  Have fun with your build.

-Ron

[thimble rig]

Welcome to the darkside my friend.Dont be scared you will do fine.Being a newbie myself,I know what youre thinking.Get some books Like The Gunsmith of Greenville county its a really good book.There are other books too ,cant remember the names though.Also check out videos like duelist1954 he builds a kit on u tube. its a good one to watch.Will give you a good idea on how to start.Dont get in a hurry,And yes you will make mistakes we all do even the masters on here run into problems .You have to learn how to correct youre mistakes.Ask plenty of questions on this site There is such a great talent of skill on here its awesome.Good luck my friend.

[L. Akers]

I 2nd the Buchele book--that is what I followed for my first rifle.  I don't think it was even a book yet then--it was serialized in Muzzle Blasts I believe in the late 50s or early 60s.  I would add to that;  look at as many rifles and pictures of rifles as you can.  It will help you see where you need to get.

[Kevin Houlihan]

 My first book was Art of Building the Pennsylvania Longrifle by Chuck Dixon of Dixon Muzzleloading Shop, Kempton PA.  It was easy to follow and a big help.  Get a couple of pieces of maple from a big box store and practive inletting a lock and side plate.  probably the most important thing is to learn to sharpen chisels.
Good luck,
Kevin

[razorbritches]

Welcome to the dark side friend, we have cookies.  Do not look back now, you are already out on the limb and it is my feeling that you will be fine.   I can assure you that you will make mistakes.  I can also assure you that warts and all that it will become on of your most prized possessions.  There can be no glory or exultation without risk, the limb is small but will bear your weight.  Have courage friend the craftsmen who hang about here will help if you ask they have certainly helped me.

[Bob Roller]

Your best teacher is going to be experience.  You get experience by doing it yourself.  There are a bunch of us born around the middle of the last century that did not have the benefits of the internet, an instruction book, or a mentor to show us the way.  Just make a commitment to do your best, step out on the limb and gain some experience.  Your first effort does not have to be perfect, nor will it be.  And that is ok!  Strive for perfection if that is important to you, but take a chance.  You will learn very quickly, and your satisfaction will be at the top of the ladder.

Taylor has nailed it. Get experience by DOING. Failure will occur. I have been around longer than many on this forum and if I had a dollar for every time I failed or had a job turn sour I would indeed be a wealthy man.
There is an old saying that goes,"Breathes there a man with soul so dead who never cut his thumb and bled".

Bob Roller

[Turtle]

 My first build was a component set with super premium wood and the very highest grade components. I got through the build, but it was less fun and more stressful than it should have been and took my over a year. In hindsight I should have started with more inexpensive components first.
                                                                                       Turtle

[Boompa]

  Many years ago when in my 20s-30s I made my living as a trim carpenter.  I'll always remember what one seasoned old carpenter, cabinet maker told me. "All carpenters make mistakes, the difference in an average carpenter and a good one is how well he disguises them."  You will learn more on that first rifle than you would've ever imagined.

[Tim Crosby]

 Where are you?
Have you watched this?

 http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=31173.0

 Although depending on the how much is already done on your kit there nay be some steps in building you can skip but most kits I have seen need some handwork and refinement  
  Have you thought about a beginners woodworking class, we have one here at the Tech school.
 Also one of the things you will need, is to learn how to sharpen your scrapers and chisels.  
Since you have never done any wood working I would try the tools on a piece of the same type of wood your stock is made from, you don't need a full stock just a piece of scrap, just to get an idea how they cut. Something else, as basic as it may sound, is using Sandpaper, be carefull not to round things off and use a backing.
 Over all, as has been said above, take your time, be patient, don't expect to be finished is a week or so.

  Tim C.      
  
  

[Chris Treichel]

Suprised no one mentioned it... The cheaper stock blanks out there will be straight grain maple... which is nice to work with, nothing fancy and good to learn on. Expensive stocks tend to have a lot of "character" ie will make you cuss a lot. There is also nothing wrong with a stock that has some mineral stains or a small knot or worm hole in the butt of the stock where it will cause no harm. You can get a nice straight grain maple stock blank from places like Dixons or Log Cabin shop for $40 and those will be plenty of challenge and will make a good gun. 

[Osprey]

We always have a few first time builders in our group at any given moment.  The first thing each is assigned is a scrap piece of maple and a breech plug, and told to practice inletting the tang into the wood.  Good chance to learn how the tools work and that's both the first part most folks inlet and one of the worst spots for mistakes to show.  We normally also get them to practice some carving on a bit of scrap wood, it's worth the time and effort, if only to see if you really want to build a gun.

[Turtle]

 A possibility might be to buy an inexpensive kit from someone like Tennesse valley manufacturing with plain easy to work wood and build that first. maybe a working gun or a fouler if you want one of those too? Or a gun for someone else that won't be fussy? Just ideas. I tried practicing on wood scraps,but that just didn't help me as actually building.
                                                             Rich

[toddsndrsn]

Thanks for the input guys.  I'll be heading up to Wood Craft this weekend to buy some tools and look for some maple carving blocks to play with.  At least that will give me an idea of tool usage.  I've been doing quite a bit of research on woodworking and furniture making.  I'm to the point most of the information has gotten redundant.  I figure most of the skills are transferable.  I've watched Duelist1954's videos more than once as well as few other TOW kit builds.  I've read Chuck Dixon's book 3 times over.  I've been browsing this sight for the last 2 months reading whatever I can.  The only thing I haven't considered is my own skills and my girlfriend's patience.  Her dad actually has friend that lives an hour from us that builds muzzleloaders, found that out last night.

From what I know of the kit, the stock is roughed out on a duplicator with barrel channel cut (lots of finishing required), the lock mortise started and the trigger guard started.  I spent a couple hours in Brad Emig's shop asking questions and learning what I could before ordering the kit.  I grew up muzzleloader hunting in PA with my dad back in the days when a flintlock was all you could hunt with during the primitive season.  I rekindled my interest in 2014 (college took its toll) after killing a few deer with bow and decided it was time to break out the old smoke pole.  I was fortunate to take a doe this year.  I had a 7 point at 7 yards, but he never let his guard down enough to get the gun up. 

Over the last couple years I've been making items for my dad reminding us of days of old.  It started with tying flies for small mouth, to making him a fly rod and the list gets long.  Everything I make relates to how we spend time together and will someday be a reminder of our time together.  If all goes well, I'll build another kit to match for myself.  This project is intended to be a Father's Day gift and will be accompanied with a powder horn that I am making.  If time allows I'll make a possibles bag too.  So to the tune of taking your time, I've set aside 15 hours a week, 2 hours a night and 5 hours on Friday, over the next 4 months.  Any free time will be left for training the pups.
 

[clockman]

Todd,
I noticed you don't have you location listed on your profile.  Too bad.   I built my first rifle under tutilage of an experienced rifle maker.   He'd tell me two to three steps to do and how to do them.   I'd go home and get them done and go back for critique and to get the instructions for the next steps to do.  On some things he would show me how to do them in his shop.  Books are great and the Internet is wonderful (wasn't around for my first build) but nothing beats an experienced teacher.   Sounds like your kit already has most things roughly cut out.  That will make it easier for your first rifle.  I'm not saying you can't build a nice gun from books but it's great to get advice from someone who's already been there.  You might want to seek out someone who can point out pitfalls and give you advice along the way.  It's a lot easier than chewing on your chisels.
My advice is to watch out here...you might end up like the rest of us...hooked on black powder and gun makin.  Good luck, And be sure to post pics of your build.

[Joe S.]

My opinion, you jump right into the deep end.You have plenty here to ask questions of or opinions. They will gladly help you out.Don't have a dead line and be patient,build at your own pace.Not a bad idea to practice on some pieces of wood if you never had experience with woodworking tools.

[toddsndrsn]

Located in Charleston WV.  I grew up near York, Pa.  I'm hoping after the first couple that this will turn into a long term hobby to kill time in the winter.  I've been looking at some of the squirrel gun threads and have plans to get a .32 cal, maybe build one.  I enjoy doing something different and seeing the looks from friends when they see a flintlock.

[Bob Mac]

If you get to some of the events, the wood sellers usually have an assortment of smaller pieces that would work just fine. They are also thick enough that you can plane them down and practice some more. Normally in the $10-15 dollar range or less.

ps I am writing this from McSherrystown, you might know where that is.

[Chris Treichel]

You are about an hour west of Dunlap Woodcraft in Chantilly, VA. He supplies some really good gun stock wood and has a scrap wood pile better than what some sell as high end and most of it are cut offs from gun stocks and such. So if you want to play with real gunstock maple and walnut... Dunlap also sells some really nice gun kits as well. Also sells chisels and such sometimes. Give him a call it might be worth a drive.

[toddsndrsn]

Bob, I grew up in Seven Valleys and spent a bit of time on Marburg in the summers.  Small world.

Chris, you may be thinking about Charles Town.  It would be a 5+ hour drive from where I live.  I have a brother that lives in DC.  Just another good reason to go visit.

Anyone know of any artisan shows in Eastern Ky, Eastern Oh, or Western Md?  It would would be fun to go to one.  Last one I was at was at Fort Frederick decades ago.  Still a long haul.  I'm hoping to get my girlfriend involved.  She'd probably enjoy one of these shows.

[crankshaft]

You are about an hour west of Dunlap Woodcraft in Chantilly, VA. He supplies some really good gun stock wood and has a scrap wood pile better than what some sell as high end and most of it are cut offs from gun stocks and such. So if you want to play with real gunstock maple and walnut... Dunlap also sells some really nice gun kits as well. Also sells chisels and such sometimes. Give him a call it might be worth a drive.

Decent prices.  But $30.00-$35.00 for shipping? ?   
 For $5.00 I would get a bare 1/2 stock with a shipping label stuck on it.  ( It's been a while.)