Author Topic: Lock and trigger "brands" or makers ???  (Read 8990 times)

Offline Molly

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Lock and trigger "brands" or makers ???
« on: June 27, 2016, 05:39:00 AM »
Any idea who made the lock and or triggers.  This rifle is probably a mid 1960 product.





« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 05:44:29 AM by Molly »

Offline OLUT

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Re: Lock and trigger "brands" or makers ???
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2016, 01:28:21 PM »
I don't know the maker(s), but I appear to have the same lock on a gun made in about the same time period. The barrel & lock are stamped R.O. Whitney, if that helps you . A photo of the inside of the lock might help others spot a potential maker


Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Lock and trigger "brands" or makers ???
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2016, 02:14:49 PM »
The lock appears to be one sold by Dixie Gun  Works.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Lock and trigger "brands" or makers ???
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2016, 02:42:46 PM »
Let's see the inside of the plate where the LOCK lives. I am thinking Cochran.
It is a spin off of a Chet Shoults from the mid 1950's.

Bob Roller

Offline Molly

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Re: Lock and trigger "brands" or makers ???
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2016, 03:14:21 PM »






Does not seem to function "normally" when in position but works fine when out of the stock.  I have found the rear trigger can be "set" and then the cock can be pulled back into firing position.  You can do that even when the lock is not in place....the triggers seem to function normally operating them that way.  I have looked closely at the in letting and there does not appear to be any binding against the wood but the rear trigger has a metal section which extends up and seems to interfere with placing the lock in the stock...the sear appears to push against this part.  Don't know if it can be seen in one of the photos

« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 03:22:45 PM by Molly »

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Lock and trigger "brands" or makers ???
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2016, 06:43:43 PM »
No name in the lock. I will guess at this and say it's a lock made from a kit that was available
from H.C.Hess (long deceased) and later Jerry DeVaudreuil.It was available for years and a
number of them were made by different people.It is the Chet Shoults lock.

Bob Roller
« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 10:46:49 PM by Ky-Flinter »

Offline Molly

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Re: Lock and trigger "brands" or makers ???
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2016, 08:14:33 PM »
Thanks!!

OLUT:  The maker name on the barrel is supposed to be P. E. Arnold.  The lock sure looks like the one you pictured....but they tend to ALL look alike to me.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 08:18:27 PM by Molly »

Offline OLUT

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Re: Lock and trigger "brands" or makers ???
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2016, 12:53:15 AM »
Thanks to Bob Roller for the identification ..the lock work on your & my gun are indeed identical


Offline Molly

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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Lock and trigger "brands" or makers ???
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2016, 03:11:38 PM »
No name in the lock. I will guess at this and say it's a lock made from a kit that was available
from H.C.Hess (long deceased) and later Jerry DeVaudreuil.It was available for years and a
number of them were made by different people.It is the Chet Shoults lock.

Bob Roller
Never heard of these. Learn something new here all the time. Thanks for the education Bob. Do these  locks have a reputation for working well?
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Molly

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Re: Lock and trigger "brands" or makers ???
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2016, 02:57:43 PM »
OLUT:

Do you shoot this rifle?  And if so how does the lock do??

Mine sparks OK but not a shower of sparks.  It seems the frizzen is "floppy" and the point of contact with the spring is "soft" and the consequences of that is that there is very little resistance when the flint strikes it so not a lot of spark although it has never failed to ignite the powder in the pan.

Wonder if anyone could suggest a source for a proper replacement to the frizzen and spring?

Offline OLUT

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Re: Lock and trigger "brands" or makers ???
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2016, 06:38:23 PM »
Molly, the frizzen spring is reasonably good ( not the stiffest one, but adequate ) and my lock sparks well. The 4f powder in the pan has never failed to ignite if the flint is set  to strike the frizzen correctly

Offline Molly

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Re: Lock and trigger "brands" or makers ???
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2016, 08:09:03 PM »
Mine is on a newly acquired "older" replica.  I have fired it 3 times plus once without a charge just to see how it was working.  Never failed to set the pan off but it is the slowest ignition sequence I have ever seen.  A touch hole liner would go a long way to fixing that but I still don't think it produces enough sparks.  It's a very nice looking rifle well fitted and what looks like good quality based on what you can see but it still suffers from a number of things the builder was just not very good at and that cannot be seen.  I can probably fix or get them fixed rather easily.

Offline Gaeckle

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Re: Lock and trigger "brands" or makers ???
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2016, 08:36:45 PM »
No name in the lock. I will guess at this and say it's a lock made from a kit that was available
from H.C.Hess (long deceased) and later Jerry DeVaudreuil.It was available for years and a
number of them were made by different people.It is the Chet Shoults lock.

Bob Roller
Never heard of these. Learn something new here all the time. Thanks for the education Bob. Do these  locks have a reputation for working well?


Jerry DeVaudreuil was out of Wooster, Ohio. I think his son in law runs a booth at Friendship, but not sure. Not long ago he dropped off a bunch of stuff at the Log Cabin Shop (can't really recall what the 'stuff' was). I think Jerry is still living, but could be wrong. You could go to Jerry's shop (I think it was his garage, been there once in the evening, but that was like 30 years ago) and pretty much get all the peices to put a lock together. He had all sorts of things: triggers, hardware, inlays....whatever. Those were the days.....they're not comming back.....

Offline sqrldog

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Re: Lock and trigger "brands" or makers ???
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2016, 08:59:32 PM »
Yep Jerry ran two businesses International Arms and the Minute Man ordered raw Hawken parts castings from him many years ago. He had many hard to find hammers patent breechs etc. You're right I don't think those days are coming back. Tim Cosby



Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Lock and trigger "brands" or makers ???
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2016, 09:20:48 PM »
 I have a lock just like the one pictured that is stamped Dixie gun works inside. The frizzen on mine was a case hardened casting that needed a Kasenite treatment periodically. I finally got tired of that, and adapted a frizzen off of an old Dixie F1 flintlock that was good steel, and sparks like a champ. I have had twenty years of good service from this lock since replacing the frizzen. I also own a Dixie Ketland lock that has the same internals with a larger plate, frizzen and cock.

  Hungry Horse

Offline blienemann

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Re: Lock and trigger "brands" or makers ???
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2016, 09:42:45 PM »
Molly and all,

I don't think anyone has responded to the triggers part of your post.  These look like Dru Hedgecock's low profile single action double set triggers.  OR something very similar.  These like many originals must be set before cocking the lock - thus single action.  Dru makes them with lower and taller blades (profiles) - to fit thinner or stouter rifles.  In some cases the blades may need to be extended for best operation.

I've seen some criticize such triggers, that they are not made or adjusted correctly.  But this sort of trigger was common on old guns, and works fine on target rifles.  Bob

Offline blienemann

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Re: Lock and trigger "brands" or makers ???
« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2016, 09:47:09 PM »
I forgot to add that with triggers like these should be set before removing or replacing the lock in its mortise. 
That's probably a good practice with any set triggers and lock combination.

Offline Molly

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Re: Lock and trigger "brands" or makers ???
« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2016, 10:24:23 PM »
Correct, the trigger question has gone unanswered and actually the first problem is really caused by the triggers.  After my trusted gunmaker looked at it he concluded that the back/top of the rear trigger had a "blade" and that it was keeping the lock from fitting properly as the sear hit that blade when you tried to put it in place.  You could "set" the rear trigger which lowers the problem "blade" and the lock would go in just fine and function once but it could not be done with the lock in place.  The plan was to file down that blade but another problem...  We were fearful that taking the trigger guard off would result in chipped or damaged wood around the pins.  The pins appeared to have been put in place from the right side and did NOT go through to show on the left side.  The alternate plan involved heating the sear and putting a slight bend back and up.  Looks like heck when the lock is out but it works just fine.  The triggers were described as "double set, single phase".  Apart from other considerations, if the triggers would have been moved slightly forward when installed, the problem may not have existed.  I like the style of the triggers....sexy, if you will!

The bore on this is 32 cal H&H barrel looks like it has never been fired but I know that it has.  But not very much.  I think the builder or buyer did not know what to do about the triggers and after making it and firing it he cleaned it good and put it away.  I have been working on the wood, cleaning dirt and grime as well as the brass.  Some brass had heavy lacquer on it and was bright as new while other parts were pretty tarnished.  I know it's a sin on an original but on this replica I took 2000 grit wet paper and cleaned the brass.  It has interesting brass wire inlayed.  I take it the builder was not much on carving so he inlay-ed brass wire to resemble carving behind the cheek plate.  Looks cool.  Novel rifle in many ways but I like it.

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Lock and trigger "brands" or makers ???
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2016, 01:54:23 AM »
No name in the lock. I will guess at this and say it's a lock made from a kit that was available
from H.C.Hess (long deceased) and later Jerry DeVaudreuil.It was available for years and a
number of them were made by different people.It is the Chet Shoults lock.

Bob Roller
Never heard of these. Learn something new here all the time. Thanks for the education Bob. Do these  locks have a reputation for working well?
[/quote

As far as I know,Jerry DeVaudreuil is still alive and running the business. He sold it twice and both times had to repossess it.
Like other cast locks,the quality will vary according to the material used at the foundry and the skill of the assembler. I tried
to make one from all cast parts and threw the internals in the trash and did it my way.
Jerry hasn't been set up at Friendship for a long time.Since his son and wife died he has not been there. I have had several good
meals with him and Rena in their motor home in past years. I think he is about 85 now.He has moulds for all kinds of locks,triggers
and tomahawks,most of them from Harold Hess who was the first owner of International Arms.He has the moulds for the Ketland
lock I made years ago which is one good lock if care is taken to make it.I cleaned one of these this week that I made in 1981 and it
was never used to make a gun.Fired like a torch with no effort.Jerry can be reached at 1-330-234-4500 if anyone is interested in
parts. He no longer has E mail.

Bob Roller


Jerry DeVaudreuil was out of Wooster, Ohio. I think his son in law runs a booth at Friendship, but not sure. Not long ago he dropped off a bunch of stuff at the Log Cabin Shop (can't really recall what the 'stuff' was). I think Jerry is still living, but could be wrong. You could go to Jerry's shop (I think it was his garage, been there once in the evening, but that was like 30 years ago) and pretty much get all the peices to put a lock together. He had all sorts of things: triggers, hardware, inlays....whatever. Those were the days.....they're not comming back.....

Offline Molly

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Re: Lock and trigger "brands" or makers ???
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2016, 02:55:27 AM »
Some pics.  See what you think.  Bbl length is 43.5 inches





« Last Edit: July 01, 2016, 03:01:12 AM by Molly »

Offline sqrldog

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Re: Lock and trigger "brands" or makers ???
« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2016, 03:10:22 AM »
Molly does that lock have a fly in it? Tim

Offline Molly

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Re: Lock and trigger "brands" or makers ???
« Reply #22 on: July 01, 2016, 04:00:12 AM »
Don't think so but I'm just saying that by looking at the posted photos, not taking it off right now to check...but I'm not an expert on all the internals.