Author Topic: John Sheetz rifles  (Read 4914 times)

nosrettap1958

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John Sheetz rifles
« on: July 01, 2016, 02:18:52 AM »
We know from original sources that William Ross and his Sheetz rifle was used with great effect at the Battle of New Orleans, however do we know what other rifles Capt. Tho. Beale's rifleman were using?  Possibly this fellow named William Weathers? 


Walker, Alexander, Jackson and New Orleans, New York, 1856, Pg. 335-337


"Alexander Walker notes the marksmanship of Beale’s riflemen, “The three slain [British] officers were dragged from the ditch and taken behind the [American] lines.  Almost immediately a contest broke out among Beale’s riflemen as to who would claim the honor of having dispatched the British colonel.  A man named William Weathers, a merchant in town and recognized by all as the best shot in the group settled the argument with the simple statement, ‘If he isn’t hit above the eyebrow, it wasn’t my shot.’ They rolled [Robert] Rennie’s body over and sure enough the fatal shot had caught the officer just over the eyebrow.  The other two officers had been riddled with rifle balls.”


Any additional information at the exhibit?

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=39948

nosrettap1958

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Re: John Sheetz rifles
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2016, 02:19:25 AM »
This is interesting about William Carr Withers (and not Weathers)

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~auntsissie/1812neworleans.html

nosrettap1958

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Re: John Sheetz rifles
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2016, 02:24:20 AM »
"William Carr Withers was born about 1784 in Fauquier Co. Virginia"

"When a young boy of approximately 8 to 10 yrs old his parents moved to Nelson Co. Kentucky and eventually settled in Shepherdsville, Bullitt Co. Kentucky by 1810. Growing up on the Virginia and Kentucky frontiers he learned the pioneer way of life. Young boys had to learn to defend themselves and were accustomed to hunting and using their weapons as a means of survival."

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~auntsissie/wmcarrwithers.html

He would have been too young to even barter his way to a long rifle in Virginia but possibly a Kentucky builder?

« Last Edit: July 01, 2016, 02:29:32 AM by crawdad »

nosrettap1958

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Re: John Sheetz rifles
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2016, 05:00:44 AM »
There has got to be something known about the makers of these guys rifles. I mean we have their names can't their name be traced back to a gun builder's work book? Or is that not possible? Or, don't these work books exist for very many builders?

Online bama

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Re: John Sheetz rifles
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2016, 05:40:44 PM »
Crawdad

While Darrin and I were building the CLA auction copy of the John Jacob Sheetz rifle I did do some research on him and was able to trace his movements down through the years and to the New Orleans area. My thinking was that as he traveled he passed through an area that he either met Sheetz and had the rifle built or that there was a rifle available that he saw while in route to New Orleans. I also think that even at that time the trade in New Orleans was very brisk and that the rifle could have been obtained by Ross there.

It might be possible to figure out what type of rifle an individual was using by where he live before traveling to the battle but I am not sure that would be very accurrate. I know that I myself have traded rifles many times over the years and I bet these guys did the same.

Another thought that I had was that Beale's group was made up of local business men which means that they were pobably well off enough to have a good rifle made or pruchased. I am not sure that a good many of the men that Jackson broought down were that well equipted. It seems that I read a news paper article from the time where they did not even have good coats and that Jackson had some of the local ladies make coats for them and I think that it mentioned that they were rounding up any spare arms for these men to use. Now there is no doubt that Kentucky rifles were used and I am sure that a number of good rifles were there but to say for sure who use what I think that it is going to be difficut to do.

We are very fortunate to have the Sheetz rifle and have the history of William Ross and can trace his lineage and his use of the Sheetz rifle at the battle. I feel that Kentucky rifle is indeed of great value as a historical document and that it should be looked on as one of the most important tools in building this great nation that we enjoy today.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2016, 06:51:14 PM by bama »
Jim Parker

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nosrettap1958

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Re: John Sheetz rifles
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2016, 05:34:13 AM »
Great information Bama. I guess I'm asking to find a needle in a hay stack then. Good discussion though.

54ball

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Re: John Sheetz rifles
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2016, 08:38:30 AM »
 These men could of had any American rifle imaginable. The Mississippi Drainage connects directly to most and indirectly to just about all the rest of the great rifle building regions of the period. There also the overland routes like the Natchez Trace to Nashville and The Federal Road to present day Macon GA.

 Looking at the routes and the fact New Orleans was the major port/market destination of the American interior virtually any type of rifle could have been used by Beal's Riflemen.

 On the morning of Jan 8, 1815 the British launch their major attack on Line Jackson. They had lost some of their heavy guns during the Artillery Duel on the 1st. Jackson's artillery proved formidable indeed. Still though, if the British had pressed on the 1st the issue may have been in doubt.

 Their attack plan for the 8th was sound. There was to be a coordinated assault on the American lines on each side of the river. Once the American West bank was captured, those guns could be turned to rake Line Jackson on the East Bank. The British objective on the East Bank was the Western Redoubt close to the River. This Redoubt, a elevated battery projecting South of Line Jackson would give support to the West Bank action and also could turn to the left to rake Line Jackson.

 Elements of the British East Bank assault actually took this readout.

 The British West Bank action was delayed because the assault troops were swept far down river essentially taking them out of the fight.

 Back on the East Bank the 7th US Infantry in concert with Marines and Beal's Riflemen in their blue checked Hunting shirts recaptured the redoubt. This was the closest, fiercest fighting on the East Bank. The Redoubt was built of debris sunken into the mud some being cotton bales. To this day the 7th Infantry is still known as The Cotton Balers.

 Withdrawing with heavy loss from the redoubt, the British decide to assault the weaker appearing portion of Line Jackson to the East of Center. Here the batteries were less numerous and line was held by what the British thought were ill trained volunteers or "dirty shirts.

 It's at this time Pakingham is felled by cannon shot. There is a break down in the British command, namely the scaling ladders. It is now that the 44th Highlanders and the main assault force march at an oblique angle to the the Dirty Shirts. This angled march takes then across Jackson's murderous batteries manned by US Navy gunners, Marines, Army, Baritarian Pirates and French Arilleriests.

 After this murderous march to their objective the British find that these "Dirty Shirts" instead of being ill trained volunteers are in actuality crack frontier riflemen coming off of two years of Indian Warfare.  This was General William Carroll's Tennesseans veterans of the Redstick War along with Col. Adair's Kentuckians some of whom were veterans of the NW and River Raisen campaigns.

 It has been said that when Carrols and Adairs riflemen opened up it sounded like rolling thunder. The ever reliable Gen John Coffee and his crack Tennesseans to Carrols left (East) also opened up on the British flanks.

 The British, without their scaling ladders, for a while took the fire standing in formation. It is said that some of the Tennesseans and Kentuckians shed tears on having to fire on such brave men. Eventually the British line broke and what was left withdrew in order. Some took shelter from the carnage against the muddy walls of Line Jackson while a few actually scaled the wall promptly demanding the Americans surrender. Instead they found themselves prisoner.

 It was all over on the East Bank and thus one of the greatest victories and most lopsided defeats was settled.

 On the West Bank regrouped the British Left Wing easily routed some Kentucky troops (Much to Jackson's Fury)and captured the American batteries on the West Bank. It was too little too late.

 A good many of the Kentuckians came poorly armed. Too a flat boat of arms for the equipped Kentuckians was lost on the river. New Orleans was soured for coats and all manner of arms.

 John Lafite the Baritarian Pirate supplied cannon, cannoners, powder, flint, ball and arms.

 I also must mention the the Free Men of Color, Choctaw Indians Beal's Riflemen and the crew of the USS Carolina who fought gallantly in this battle and in the Night Battle of Dec. 24 1814.