advice sought for shooting a .58

[Bob Roller]

I suspect that 110 gns. of FFG in a 31" barrel is not burning completely. Shoot it over fresh snow, or an old bed sheet, and see if it spitting a bunch of it out on the ground. I'd be shocked if it isn't.
 If whatever your'e hunting takes a charge of 110 gns. Of powder and a .58 cal. Ball your'e either hunting dangerous game, or shooting them in the wrong end.

  Hungry Horse

HH  That may be true as we have been taught, however according to the  Lyman handbook increasing the charge beyond this does increase the muzzle volicity and a higher   point of  impact at 100 yds

My own observation of antique rifles with original chargers/measures is that NONE of them used such a load
unless it was a British rifle used in Africa or India. The Modena (Medina) Hawken is 58 caliber and has a flask with 3 or 4
position spout and the top load is 85 grains of black powder.A 58 caliber ball launched from a pistol with 40 grains of black powder
is a potent projectile from a 10" barrel so I would think and KNOW that the same ball from a 33" barrel with twice that load
will be even more effective.

Bob Roller

[Fyrstyk]

I have a 30" barrel on my Browning Mountain Rifle that was re-bored to 58 with a 1/66 twist for round ball shooting.  This gun shoots 120 grns of 2f into 2 1/2 inches about 1" low at 100 yds.  The mid-range trajectory at 50 yds  is 2 1/2 " high  with about a 1-1/2" group (all from the bench) I clocked this loat at just over 1600 ft per second.  Not fun to shoot from the bench, but this is a hunting gun not a bench gun.  I also have a .58 big boar barrel for my renegade with a 1/48 twist and 27" barrel.  It likes 80 grns of 2f for a round ball target load, but 110 grns for a round ball hunting load.  58's are just fun, and who doesn't like putting big holes in paper or game?

[Mike Brooks]

I have a 30" barrel on my Browning Mountain Rifle that was re-bored to 58 with a 1/66 twist for round ball shooting.  This gun shoots 120 grns of 2f into 2 1/2 inches about 1" low at 100 yds.  The mid-range trajectory at 50 yds  is 2 1/2 " high  with about a 1-1/2" group (all from the bench) I clocked this loat at just over 1600 ft per second.  Not fun to shoot from the bench, but this is a hunting gun not a bench gun.  I also have a .58 big boar barrel for my renegade with a 1/48 twist and 27" barrel.  It likes 80 grns of 2f for a round ball target load, but 110 grns for a round ball hunting load.  58's are just fun, and who doesn't like putting big holes in paper or game?

Why would you shoot a less accurate load for hunting than you do target....I'm assuming the 80gr load is shot because of it's superior accuracy over the 110gr load.

[Fyrstyk]

The 80 gr & 110 grain loads in the Renegade have almost identical accuracy at 50 yds, but the 80 gr. load drops more than 6" at 100 yds, whereas the 110 gr. load only drops about 2.5".  I use the 80 gr. load for  club trail walks and cut the stake competitions.  It is much easier on the shoulder. 

[Dphariss]

Wade you took the words right out of my mouth! As much as I dislike Pyrodex, I've found, in certain guns results are totally different than Goex, Swiss, etc.. Coming up with the recipe that works best for a particular gun is the time consuming hard part. A purist would never consider Pyrodex but I didn't want to be narrow minded. Was advised about the uber corrosive nature of Pyrodex but figured a good cleaning would negate that. It's not a bad thing to know how your firearm responds to Goex or Pyrodex. What ever puts lead on target, and whatever you can lay hands on to make the gun go bang! Just take good advise that was given to me. If you use Pyrodex, clean, clean, and re lean your rifle. Or you'll be sorry. You may consider trying it, if you're not shooting a flinter.
  So many variables! But ain't it fun?! If it were easy we'd have nothing to crow about.

Easier to just not use the stuff.

Dan

[Dphariss]

I suspect that 110 gns. of FFG in a 31" barrel is not burning completely. Shoot it over fresh snow, or an old bed sheet, and see if it spitting a bunch of it out on the ground. I'd be shocked if it isn't.
 If whatever your'e hunting takes a charge of 110 gns. Of powder and a .58 cal. Ball your'e either hunting dangerous game, or shooting them in the wrong end.

  Hungry Horse

HH  That may be true as we have been taught, however according to the  Lyman handbook increasing the charge beyond this does increase the muzzle volicity and a higher   point of  impact at 100 yds

My own observation of antique rifles with original chargers/measures is that NONE of them used such a load
unless it was a British rifle used in Africa or India. The Modena (Medina) Hawken is 58 caliber and has a flask with 3 or 4
position spout and the top load is 85 grains of black powder.A 58 caliber ball launched from a pistol with 40 grains of black powder
is a potent projectile from a 10" barrel so I would think and KNOW that the same ball from a 33" barrel with twice that load
will be even more effective.

Bob Roller

The problem arises when the range is extended.  1600 fps is about the lowest velocity I consider useful in the west.  Antelope, for example, have something like 8x vision. Getting under 100 yards is almost impossible 120+ is not uncommon. Low velocity loads just don't cut it trajectory wise. In the east where many deer are shot at pistol ranges its not a concern. Where I live without a laser range finder range estimate errors of 100 yards are not unknown since often there is NOTHING to judge by but the size of the animal and this can vary from animal to animal and even the light striking it can cause it to look closer than it is. If I have a rifle that I can zero at 120 (50 cal with 75 gr of FFF Swiss or 90 gr of FFF GOEX) with 4" rise at mid-range and I see a deer I think is at 75 and its really 125 it does not matter. Center hold will kill the deer. Load it so it can only be zeroed with a 4" rise at 75 and the deer is 125 you can shoot off a leg....

Dan