Author Topic: Those darn wrinkles... (Read 10715 times)

tddeangelo · « **on:** August 17, 2016, 02:27:02 PM »

Working on casting some 0.600 balls, and I've heated the mold on the pot (corner in the melt till it comes out clean), and assumed the first few likely would still wrinkle a bit till the cavities really got warmed up, but even if I'm moving pretty fast (I think so, anyway), I'd say 90% of them have some sort of discernible wrinkle (some are very faint), and I reject about 2/3 to go back to be remelted to "try again".

I'm pouring with a Lyman dipper, not a bottom pour pot. I have the Lyman pot at about 3/4 max temp on the adjustment dial.

Wondering if I need to up the temp in the pot?

Dennis Glazener · « **Reply #1 on:** August 17, 2016, 03:30:42 PM »

Its been awhile since I cast many balls that had wrinkles but it seems to me that if they wrinkled after the molds got up to proper heat that I added tin to the mix to cure the problem.

That was using wheel weight lead, if you are using pure lead I am not sure what would cause the problem except the heat being too low.

Dennis

Maven · « **Reply #2 on:** August 17, 2016, 03:38:36 PM »

That's a reliable indicator of too low a furnace and mould temperature and/or a oil contaminated mould cavity. A third, but less likely possibility is zinc contaminated lead, but I'm not banking on it. I had the very same problem when casting pure lead RB's and conicals until I upped the temperature to 800 deg. F.* Using a casting thermometer is a great help in getting the temperature right and eliminating the problem you spoke of.

* My Lee 10 lb. [electric] furnace thermostat needed a minor adjustment, but without a thermometer, I wouldn't have known it. The thermometer really reduced the frustration and reject rate I'm happy to say

smylee grouch · « **Reply #3 on:** August 17, 2016, 04:46:45 PM »

I have one of those Lyman dippers with a little spout the lead goes through, I ran a drill bit through mine to clean up the casting a little and open it up a tad. The lead comes out a little faster now and I think it fills the bigger cavity molds a little faster which might help.

P.W.Berkuta · « **Reply #4 on:** August 17, 2016, 08:32:54 PM »

It sounds to me like your temp needs to be increased $:-\$ .

kudu · « **Reply #5 on:** August 17, 2016, 09:22:18 PM »

I also suspect your temp may be too low and agree with "MAVEN" that a thermometer is a good investment.

I myself was casting on a real hot day about 96 in the shade and my "pot" was about 100deg. low from the last time I used it , about a week early, when the outside temp about 25deg cooler. the thermometer told the truth. just dialed it up and problem fixed.

Dan · « **Reply #6 on:** August 17, 2016, 10:41:25 PM »

Fella looking for success casting pure lead needs 800* in the pot. 30:1 will run smoothly at 775* and the more confused the alloy the lower the temp.....usually....depending.... I cook the rough equivalent of Lyman #2 at 675-700*.

hammer · « **Reply #7 on:** August 17, 2016, 11:00:13 PM »

Another thing to consider is the size of the hole in the sprue cutter. They can be a tad too small for large calibre molds. Doesn't let the molten lead into the mold quickly enough. You might try opening it up just a little with a hand-held drill bit.

tddeangelo · « **Reply #8 on:** August 17, 2016, 11:40:55 PM »

Quote from: Hammer on August 17, 2016, 11:00:13 PM

Another thing to consider is the size of the hole in the sprue cutter. They can be a tad too small for large calibre molds. Doesn't let the molten lead into the mold quickly enough. You might try opening it up just a little with a hand-held drill bit.

I wondered about that. The sprues are very small. I never thought to drill out those holes, but that's a good idea.

P.W.Berkuta · « **Reply #9 on:** August 18, 2016, 02:17:01 AM »

Another suggestion -- the drill bit will work but a countersink will give a sharp edge to the bottom of the plate and help cut the sprue - just stone off any burrs on the bottom of the plate or you will scar the top surface of the mold.

tddeangelo · « **Reply #10 on:** August 18, 2016, 03:21:00 AM »

That's a good idea, but I don't have any countersinks on hand at this point. I'll just bore out the sprue openings and the pour spout on the ladle, and up the temp of the melt a bit and see how it goes.

I've been putting off a thermometer, but I guess it's time.

Thanks for all the suggestions. I'll see how it goes!

hudson · « **Reply #11 on:** August 18, 2016, 05:18:16 PM »

All suggestions are good, have used them all in sixty plus years of casting. Couple I will add, clean the cavity and check the venting. I recall reading when all else fails kick the dog and slam the front door (not really suggesting that) some molds just like to make life difficult. Good luck.

tddeangelo · « **Reply #12 on:** August 18, 2016, 07:20:46 PM »

I'll run a batch maybe this weekend and see how it goes!

tddeangelo · « **Reply #13 on:** August 22, 2016, 05:37:56 AM »

Ran some lead through the mold today.

I bored out the sprue holes and the hole in the dipper. I also kept the pot on the highest setting to keep the lead hotter.

Till had maybe 1/3 with either faint wrinkles or some speckling (like small voids) on the surface, but the majority were either totally smooth or had such faint wrinkles that I wasn't gonna remelt them.

The occasional wrinkly one I think may have happened when I had one of the balls stick (two cavity mold) and it took some convincing to come out. I'm guessing the mold being open and in "cold" air for a time cooled it off fairly quickly.

I've thought about just using one cavity only and not filling both. I've read before that some will do that to avoid inconsistency (in the situation where one cavity throws a slightly larger/smaller ball than the other). Would probably let me cast faster and keep the cavity temp from changing so much, too.

But overall, a vast improvement.

Gonna keep at it....really anxious to kill a deer this year with balls I made myself!

Scota4570 · « **Reply #14 on:** August 22, 2016, 08:39:15 PM »

Smoke the mold with soot. Use a candle or propane/ map gas torch with the air inlets closed with tape.

smylee grouch · « **Reply #15 on:** August 22, 2016, 09:55:01 PM »

I sure do dislike double cavity molds. Seems as though some lead will find its way into the second cavity when I pour the first and then the second ball will be poured on a solidified little blob in the bottom of the second cavity and hardly ever turns out to be a good ball unless you cast at a real high temp.

Daryl · « **Reply #16 on:** August 23, 2016, 08:20:41 PM »

Love DC moulds - or singles and also like my 4-cavity moulds. I do not like 6 cavity moulds of iron - too bloody heavy.

I suspect lackof enough heat, and/or oil leeching from the pores in the mould are the problem. I like to cast enough balls to do for a couple sessions - and I rarely get wrinkles on the first 1 to 3. I preheat the mould, BUT- I degrease the blocks with HOT water and an old toothbrush and strong soap or degreasing agent like COMET!

The balls, if cast with dead soft lead, should shine like jewels.

These bullets are cast from clamp-on or crimp-on WW's. I cast these so they are evenly frosted all over- resulting in perfect bullets.

Pete G. · « **Reply #17 on:** August 24, 2016, 01:33:00 AM »

Instead of throwing them back in the pot try shooting a few. You might be surprised. The tests that I have done on less than perfect balls show that wrinkles make very little if any discernable difference on the target, at least out to about 75 yards, which is about as far as I can shoot accurately with iron sights. If they weigh within a grain or two of a perfect ball they will shoot the same.

tddeangelo · « **Reply #18 on:** August 24, 2016, 05:06:39 AM »

I weighed a dozen or so and found something like a 4-5 grain variance (0.600 balls), with most landing in a 2-3 grain range.

They are shiny little spherical mirrors when they're first out of the mold. After a few days, they do dull as they oxidize. I have to look for lines on these, for the most part. On the first run, they were pretty rough in some spots. Some looked like layers of playdoh, lol.

Now they look much better. I should probably clean the mold better, and re-smoke it, and try again, but more heat and the sprue holes bored out seems to have helped a lot.

I did some casting last summer with a bottom pour pot, and not to start THAT debate up, but I like the ladle better. I feel more capable of controlling the flow of the lead, and it seems to make much less of a sprue to cut, too. I tip everything sideways so no lead is coming out of the ladle spout, fit it to the sprue cutter hole tightly, then turn the whole works upright to fill the cavity. Tip it back, disengage, and repeat for the 2nd cavity.

I think I'm going to try just casting on cavity and see how that goes. I picked up the mold when I was at Dixon's at some point (I live dangerously close to that place), since it was there, and I figured I'd get it while the getting was good.

Maybe I'll experiment with balls from one cavity only, and try two different batches, one off one cavity and one run off the other. See if there's any difference in consistency/weight/diameter....and I'm thinking the cavity will stay heated better if I just use one cavity to cast rather than using both.

Daryl · « **Reply #19 on:** August 24, 2016, 08:01:10 AM »

I usually cut a groove between the two holes of a DC Lyman, RCBS or Ohaus mould. That way, I pour from the ladle into the middle filling both cavities at the same time. They fill perfectly, every one of them - if your lead and mould are the correct temperature.

Scota4570 · « **Reply #20 on:** August 25, 2016, 06:31:38 PM »

With a gang mold I use a bottom pour pot. Having a bit of lead splash in the the next cavity is never and issue because they all get filled in a few seconds. Filling slowly will promote wrinkles. Once the bullet mold support is set up right, you can go down the line of cavities in a couple of seconds. I normally make 500+ bullets in a casting session with my Lee gang molds and bottom pour pots. The equipment can work.

I see "Marvel Flux" in a picture above. That stuff will rot your melting pot. Notice all the rust on the pot in the picture. I have thrown away Lee bottom pour pots away due to the main container rusting through because of Marvel Flux.

smylee grouch · « **Reply #21 on:** August 25, 2016, 07:53:37 PM »

Daryl, how wide and deep do you cut that grove in the spru plate? It sounds like a good idea if the lead is hot enough.

James · « **Reply #22 on:** August 27, 2016, 11:08:10 AM »

I had $65 Cabelas points so I sprung for the 20 pound Lee pot. Ran 86 .50 ball yesterday and I am quite pleased.

hanshi · « **Reply #23 on:** August 27, 2016, 09:24:04 PM »

I've cast a lot of balls & bullets using a dipper and iron pot. But for the past 45 years or so have used mostly Lee bottom pour pots. I like double cavity molds and a couple of 4 cavity Saeco molds I bought many decades ago. Of the two Lee bp pots I own one has been sent back to lee for refurbishing; it came back looking just like a new pot. They have cast so many balls/bullets that they both are again fairly ratty looking.

At times I get balls with discernible wrinkles but only throw back the ones obviously bad. I'm not a great shot but the lightly wrinkled ones shoot as well as the pristine ones up to about 100 yards. This would not work for match shooters but are quite satisfactory for hunting, plinking and casual target work.

tddeangelo · « **Reply #24 on:** August 29, 2016, 04:03:07 AM »

I cast up about 75 or so today, and had maybe 8 or 9 rejects. No more than a dozen total.

I used just one cavity and found I could move pretty quickly, really. The balls look great.

The sprues on some look sort of torn/smeared. Was I too quick to cut the sprue?

Other than that, they look pretty good.

I have a little over 100 balls now for my 62-cal rifle, which is fantastic. 100ct of 0.600" balls cost about $40 off the shelf.

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Author Topic: Those darn wrinkles... (Read 10715 times)

hammer