ball mold cherry

[Justin Urbantas]

I was wondering if anybody out there has a good reference or experience making cherries for ball molds. I'd like to make a few molds at the forge. Cherries seem a little complicated to get the right size correct.

[mark brier]

The hardest part of making the cherry is setting the teeth, fine file work. To make the ball cherry itself is actually quite easy and precise to whatever diameter you want. First decide what size you desire. Upset a piece of round tool steel and on the anvil and start shaping it into the shape of a ball off the edge of the anvil. You will need to  reheat several times and probably upset the piece a few more times to forge as close to possible the size you want, but do leave it oversized some. With practice you can forge and very close to a round ball. After the ball is forged carefully draw out the shaft being careful right next to the head and round the shaft and then finish the rest of the shank as you desire. To cut the cherry to the exact size you want take another piece of tool steel 3/8"x1" is enough. Come from one edge a half inch and drill a hole and then ream exactly to desired size. On the underneath side of the hole file or countersink the hole to within about.040" from the top. Then from the center line of the hole on the top side cut the width for the diameter of the shaft you want and file the underside of that as well and then harden the steel. Take your newly forged and annealed cherry and chuck it into and handrill/brace whatever you prefer and with downward pressure while spinning the piece run it down thru the plate you made which in essence is a stationary mill. This will cut a perfectly round ball to whatever diameter you make it and will mill the shaft at the same time keeping everything perfectly centered. Then the work comes with needle file and setting in the teeth then harden.

Mark brier

[wormey]

There is a wonderful little book out there called "The Gunsmiths Manual" by Stele and Harrison.  It was originally published  in 1883, but was republished in 1972 by The Gun Room Press.  This fine little book has good illustrations and directions for making tools including making a round ball cherry .  You should be able to find a copy if you search Amazon and other sites.  It contains a wealth of information for those of us who like to live in the past,  Wormey

[smokinbuck]

Second Wormey's book selection. I found a copy years ago and it is a wealth of knowledge on many things gun related, not just the mold cherrys.
Mark

[KNeilson]

Justin, I found a method for doing this in a (old) small book published by NMLRA "How to build a muzzleloading rifle, target pistol, powder horn". Ive produced a few this way and found the job not to daunting. Check out this post http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=13995.0 .           Kerry

[James Wilson Everett]

Guys,

Here is a photo of a finished and an unfinished cherry.  These ore old & original.  The unfinished cherry is the most interesting, showing a quite irregular spherical section.  I guess that the gunsmith when forging cherries did several at a time.  Then later he would finish them to a required ball size.  It seems that at some point in making a cherry, you should have an unfinished cherry looking a lot like this one.  Then later finish to the required size as described in one of the earlier replies to this post.

Jim

[Justin Urbantas]

thanks guys. Maybe I'll find time to make one this winter, and make some molds

[Shreckmeister]

The hardest part of making the cherry is setting the teeth, fine file work. To make the ball cherry itself is actually quite easy and precise to whatever diameter you want. First decide what size you desire. Upset a piece of round tool steel and on the anvil and start shaping it into the shape of a ball off the edge of the anvil. You will need to  reheat several times and probably upset the piece a few more times to forge as close to possible the size you want, but do leave it oversized some. With practice you can forge and very close to a round ball. After the ball is forged carefully draw out the shaft being careful right next to the head and round the shaft and then finish the rest of the shank as you desire. To cut the cherry to the exact size you want take another piece of tool steel 3/8"x1" is enough. Come from one edge a half inch and drill a hole and then ream exactly to desired size. On the underneath side of the hole file or countersink the hole to within about.040" from the top. Then from the center line of the hole on the top side cut the width for the diameter of the shaft you want and file the underside of that as well and then harden the steel. Take your newly forged and annealed cherry and chuck it into and handrill/brace whatever you prefer and with downward pressure while spinning the piece run it down thru the plate you made which in essence is a stationary mill. This will cut a perfectly round ball to whatever diameter you make it and will mill the shaft at the same time keeping everything perfectly centered. Then the work comes with needle file and setting in the teeth then harden.

Mark brier

    Nice job describing the process.  THanks

[Bob Roller]

The hardest part of making the cherry is setting the teeth, fine file work. To make the ball cherry itself is actually quite easy and precise to whatever diameter you want. First decide what size you desire. Upset a piece of round tool steel and on the anvil and start shaping it into the shape of a ball off the edge of the anvil. You will need to  reheat several times and probably upset the piece a few more times to forge as close to possible the size you want, but do leave it oversized some. With practice you can forge and very close to a round ball. After the ball is forged carefully draw out the shaft being careful right next to the head and round the shaft and then finish the rest of the shank as you desire. To cut the cherry to the exact size you want take another piece of tool steel 3/8"x1" is enough. Come from one edge a half inch and drill a hole and then ream exactly to desired size. On the underneath side of the hole file or countersink the hole to within about.040" from the top. Then from the center line of the hole on the top side cut the width for the diameter of the shaft you want and file the underside of that as well and then harden the steel. Take your newly forged and annealed cherry and chuck it into and handrill/brace whatever you prefer and with downward pressure while spinning the piece run it down thru the plate you made which in essence is a stationary mill. This will cut a perfectly round ball to whatever diameter you make it and will mill the shaft at the same time keeping everything perfectly centered. Then the work comes with needle file and setting in the teeth then harden.

Mark brier

    Nice job describing the process.  THanks

Bill Large had a lot of these "cherries" he and others made and as long as
all the cutting edges point in the same direction it will work fine.
I have made oval shaped rotary files to shape the interior of a pan on a
flintlock and made no effort to index them,only made sure all the cutting
surfaces were right hand rotation.In other word,a "cherry" by another
name which is a rotary file.

Bob Roller

[KNeilson]

I noticed some of the pictures were missing so I reposted them to tinypic. I don't understand why only a few were not showing, but they are back now if anyone has interest

[Scota4570]

Somewhere in the cobwebs of my minds eye I see a way to make a round ball cherry blank..... 

To make the cherry blank perfectly round you need a round cutting tool.  To make that drill a hole in a piece of tool steel near the edge.  Maybe 1/4 inch stock?  Cut the notch out needed to clear the cherry's shaft.  Harden and draw the plate with the hole in it.  To cut the cherry round turn the cherry blank while pushing it in to the cutter late with a wood block, maybe in a vice.  Once the cherry blank clear the hole in the plate it will be round and the size of the hole in the plate.  To make the cherry cut the mold block the flutes would be cut with a three corner safe side file.  By eye would be good enough.  I would harden it after and draw it appropriately.

I'd cut the blocks with plans to cut the top off the mold in a mill with a fly cutter to make the sprue plate cut off the right amount.  The mold blocks I normally make are like Lymans.  I use long alignment pins while cutting  the mold cavity.     

Or let Jeff Tanner do it.  His molds are a bargain.   

[Daryl]

Yes - Jeff's moulds certainly are a bargain - in any size.