Author Topic: GPR fish belly  (Read 4391 times)

Offline Duane Harshaw

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 100
GPR fish belly
« on: February 22, 2017, 05:14:13 AM »
I have a GPR and I would like to get rid of the fish belly on the bottom of the butt stock should I use a plane a rasp not sure how to approach it any help appreciated.thx
Coaldale Alberta Canada

ron w

  • Guest
Re: GPR fish belly
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2017, 06:36:09 PM »
pay close attention to how thing the wrist will get, when take the bottom of it off by straightening the perch belly. some later percussion style stocks, actually have a change in geometry of the wrist/comb, forming what looks like a "perch belly", but really isn't. ....taking it out will overly thin the wrist in the comb/ wrist junction area that might look worse than the perch belly, and/or severely weaken the stock there.. also, the trgger guard will most likely have to be bent to fit the new line of the bottom of the wrist/butt junction.

Online axelp

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1506
    • TomBob Outdoors, LLC.
Re: GPR fish belly
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2017, 06:59:54 PM »
Are there not original styles of half stock rifles that have differing amounts of fish belly geometry? I am thinking of the half stock rifles that were being built in California during the 1800s.  I had a GPR for a while and it was a great shooting gun and it handled great. Sure, it still sports a coil spring lock, and it is not a "true Hawken" in its stock geometry, but I think there is argument that a lot of modern Hawken repros are not so much right either?  I am thinking the GPR outwardly resembles other rifles of the first half of the 19th C.

Of course, its your gun and you have your reasons to try to change it-- I respect that. There are a few guys on this board that did exactly what you are intending. And it worked out nicely. Hopefully they will chime in.

Best of luck

K
Galations 2:20

Offline EC121

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1570
Re: GPR fish belly
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2017, 07:14:23 PM »
From looking at some pictures when you cut off the belly, you are getting close to the bottom of the cheekpiece.  Cutting the belly straighter will cause the it to widen due to the vertical taper of the stock.  This will cause reshaping of the whole rear end and cheekpiece.  Hardly worth it unless you just want to try it.
Brice Stultz

Offline Daryl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15052
Re: GPR fish belly
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2017, 09:23:01 PM »
Too bad Taylor isn't home yet - he re-finished and altered Brian's GPR - beautifully done, btw.  When he gets back this afternoon (THURSDAY), I'll mention this thread to him - I'm picking them up at the airport this afternoon. I don't have the pictures in my computer, or I'd post them.

edited for day
« Last Edit: February 23, 2017, 10:39:31 PM by Daryl »
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Daryl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15052
Re: GPR fish belly
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2017, 12:48:04 AM »
Bump. Picking them up in an hour.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Turtle

  • Guest
Re: GPR fish belly
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2017, 02:38:30 PM »
    As a fan of NYS fish belly rifles I'm offended by the implication that they are ugly.                          In fun, Turtle

Offline Daryl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15052
Re: GPR fish belly
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2017, 09:29:29 PM »
I believe the proper term, if there is one, is "Perch Belly".
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Smoketown

  • Guest
Re: GPR fish belly
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2017, 05:50:10 PM »
I believe the proper term, if there is one, is "Perch Belly".

Not to be confused with "Butt Sag" ...   ;D    ::)

Cheers,
Smoketown

Offline Daryl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15052
Re: GPR fish belly
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2017, 03:08:41 AM »
Umm - hello Taylor
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

  • Member 3
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12545
Re: GPR fish belly
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2017, 04:49:11 AM »
No pressure!

There is a lot that a guy can do to improve the aesthetics of the GPR and removing a little of the perch belly is one of them.  But as has been mentioned, it will bring you to other issues, kind of like painting only one room in your house.
As you shave away the bulbous perch belly, the wood of the butt stock grows thicker moving toward the cheek piece.  This will show as the two lines along the flat bottom of the stock diverging away from each other, and then converging toward the trigger area.  I order to improve that perhaps unforseen feature, you will have to rework the entire butt stock on both sides to make those two bottom lines parallel again.  This is not a bad thing, but adds to the work required to 'make it right'.
One of the architectural features of the GPR that benefits greatly from attention, is the standing breech and the top of the wrist.  the tang itself has two bevels ground or cast into it - don't know what that's for, but they are buried in the wood in that big hump behind the breech.  The tang needs to be bend down a bit directly behind the vertical 'break off' and then some of the curve removed from the arc of the tang.  Once this is done, the tang is re-inlet a little deeper and the wood and the steel filed together to eliminate the bevels and remove the pregnant hump.  When this is done nicely, together with removing most of the perch belly, the lines of the butt stock suddenly take on a much more pleasing form.
The stock of the GPR is created from the factory by 'slack-sanding' which avoids the necessity of the manufacturer to employ hand work for finishing.  But slack sanding cannot get into the radii that will make the cheep piece side a lot nicer.  So a lot of wood has to come off the cheek piece side especially, including the cheek piece itself which, from the factory is very voluptuous.  If it would be useful, I will see if I can find some of the images I took of Brian's GPR re-build, and post them here.
To better answer your question, you will use a plane, aggressive rasps like Nicholson's 49, and various files, ending with abrasive paper or cloth backed by various shaped pieces of wood and rubber.  The GPR wood that I have worked is some form of European walnut, and is extremely hard, so it will be nice to work with and take a fine finish.  If you choose to do the work, and are patient and know where you're going, the result will be remarkable, and you will enjoy your rifle that much more for having customized it and removed the factory ... looking for the right word.
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

  • Member 3
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12545
Re: GPR fish belly
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2017, 05:19:29 AM »


Unfortunately, I didn't take before and after pictures, but I hope you can see where shape has changed on the rifle, and wood removed.  Note that there is no diminishing of the wrist as was previously cautioned, at least, not to the point of jeopardizing the rifle.  This project started life as a finished rifle, not a kit, so original finish still remains in this first image.  This shows the stock roughed out.



















« Last Edit: February 27, 2017, 05:32:40 AM by D. Taylor Sapergia »
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline Daryl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15052
Re: GPR fish belly
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2017, 07:34:46 AM »
Nice!
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

g2608671@verizon.net

  • Guest
Re: GPR fish belly
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2017, 04:38:52 PM »
Wow! I have never liked the looks of a GPR but what you have done here is remarkable. 

Offline horsetrader

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 60
Re: GPR fish belly
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2017, 03:50:58 AM »
Outstanding rework of the GPR. I have one I put together a while ago for the PA flint season, this post gives me some great ideas for a facelift. Thanks Taylor.

Ed Radzinski
Ed Radzinski

Offline Daryl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15052
Re: GPR fish belly
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2017, 05:51:10 AM »
This rifle might change your definition of HARDwood. LOL

« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 05:51:56 AM by Daryl »
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline horsetrader

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 60
Re: GPR fish belly
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2017, 10:57:48 PM »
Daryl or Taylor is that an L&R replacement lock on the GPR. If it is, how was it to fit up and how does it function.

Ed Radzinski
Ed Radzinski

Offline Daryl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15052
Re: GPR fish belly
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2017, 02:32:14 AM »
Why yes - it certainly appears to be, doesn't it, especially with the double throated cock & Ashmore? - styling.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V