Canoe Gun

[David Rase]

Here are 2 photos, out of about 60 that I took, of a Haida Tradegun with a 16 1/2" long barrel.  This shortened gun resides in the Museum of Anthropology at the University of British Columbia campus in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada.   I had called ahead and asked the curator if they could pull it out of the display for me.  We set a date and when I arrived the gun was waiting in the observation room for me to photograph and study.
David

[Joe S]

There were probably more short barreled guns back in the day than guns with vent liners, aniline dye stains or polyurethane finishes.

[Mike Brooks]

There were probably more short barreled guns back in the day than guns with vent liners, aniline dye stains or polyurethane finishes.

Proof?

[Joe S]

Proof?

Around 90 works best for me. If it's higher than that, my eyes water. Any lower than that, and I feel like I'm wasting my time.

[WadePatton]

Proof?

Around 90 works best for me. If it's higher than that, my eyes water. Any lower than that, and I feel like I'm wasting my time.

Exactly, and 80 sips real smoof.   Hey is it Winter yet?   

[J.E. Moore]

Winter harvest rye

[Old Ford2]

Here are 2 photos, out of about 60 that I took, of a Haida Tradegun with a 16 1/2" long barrel.  This shortened gun resides in the Museum of Anthropology at the University of British Columbia campus in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada.   I had called ahead and asked the curator if they could pull it out of the display for me.  We set a date and when I arrived the gun was waiting in the observation room for me to photograph and study.
David

Mr. Rase
These guns were made for a group of short ( pigmy ) Canadian aboriginals ( long distinct ) and only a few have survived.
This post is from another short Canadian.
Fred

[alacran]

I can understand Mike Brooks's frustration with this subject. I feel the same about flintlock Hawkens.
By definition any gun I put in a canoe is a canoe gun., regardless of length.

[Craig Wilcox]

I kinda favor the long extinct Canadian pygmies.  They probably had smaller canoes as well.  And I have heard that they were very short-sighted.

I agree with Alacran about canoe rifles.  Don't really make good canoe paddles though.

[Hungry Horse]

Plus there is no way of knowing when these guns were shortened. It could have happened long after cartridge guns were common, and a full length flintlock wasn’t practical for hunting, or fighting.

  Hungry Horse

[smokinbuck]

Not caring if it is HC or not, I built a 20 ga flint lock half stock with a 36" barrel, Even put a cannon muzzle on the barrel. Handles well, shoots better than I can, especially at clay birds,  and is light enough to carry all day. Meets all the criteria I wanted.
Mark

[oldtravler61]

The attack at Fort Detroit an Fort Michilamackenac was in the 1700s. Just a tad bit before the cartridge gun era.  IIRC.   Oldtravler

[Greg Pennell]

Mr. Rase, do you have any better pictures of the carving on that shortie?  Looks like someone with some serious totem pole carving skills had his way with it...

Greg

[David Rase]

Mr. Rase, do you have any better pictures of the carving on that shortie?  Looks like someone with some serious totem pole carving skills had his way with it...

Greg

[Daryl]

TKs David - amazing carving & typically Haida.

[Mike Brooks]

OK Rase, when you gonna repop that little gun?

[rollingb]

Looking at the carvings on the stock, I can definitely make out what appear to be 2 or 3 crudely shaped canoes.      

[Greg Pennell]

Thanks for the extra photos...for you guys up in the PNW, is that a fairly usual native gunstock treatment, or is this one an anomaly?  It certainly looks well executed from here!

Greg

[oldtravler61]

  After much totem pole writing study. The markings say. Canoe gun patent 1760 by Old Chief low in water....!  Sorry Mike couldn't resist...!!!   Oldtravler

[David Rase]

OK Rase, when you gonna repop that little gun?

Way ahead of you Mike.

[redheart]

Canoe guns have no historical context. There were no guns purpose built for using whilst  paddling a canoe.

I hate to agree with Mike, but here goes,

Any NW gun shorter than 30" only existed because someone screwed up and blew the front end off of it!
I know these little shorties look kind of cool, but please don't shorten a useful piece for that purpose.
If you care to be historically or even hysterically correct short start your ball, this will blow off the front end of your barrel, then square it up with a hacksaw and file. That's how it was done in the old days. I have seen several guns turned unintentionally into "canoe guns".

[Mike Brooks]

OK Rase, when you gonna repop that little gun?

Way ahead of you Mike.

I'm not surprised. Now for the part I'm most interested in. THE CARVING!. I'm pretty fascinated by that gun. I have seen a few of these in the past but they were of standard length, but carved in the same way which I find very cool. You'll probably have to spend some time in a sweat lodge before you get enough NA mojo going on to execute that carving correctly. I'm sure all that carving has a very specific meaning.....if you don't get it right you might insult the size of the Chief's feet  and be banished from the West coast  for ever.

[War Eagle]

I believe many of these short guns came about after barrels ruptured, or were dented and made unusable. I know there are records indicating some guns were shortened for concealment during the Indian wars. But, I think they were in the minority.
 I also should point out that the shorter a muzzleloader gets, the easier it is to put yourself in danger loading them.
  Hungry Horse

I have a rusty old Harpers Ferry Model 1842 U.S. Percussion Musket "barn find" here in Alabama that has been abused and crudely cut down in almost every way possible (barrel and stock).  The barrel needs cut down again because it looks like some former owner decided to bounce the muzzle on a hard surface to try to shake loose the charge that is still encrusted inside such that the muzzle edge is now dinged every which-way.  (It's in secure storage until I decide how best to remove the old charge when all metal parts are rusted solid.)   "If this old gun could talk...."

[oldtravler61]

  Since we are having fun with this. Here's a question ? We all know that their were European coach guns with short barrels. Could some of them been brought over here ? Could there have been barrels sent here an built here ?
  The barrel I opened was checked by several people in the know. Had correct proof marks. It was Not according to them cut off. The barrel measured 24 3/4 in length.  Really curios as to anyone's thoughts ?  Oldtravler

[War Eagle]

Mr. Rase, do you have any better pictures of the carving on that shortie?  Looks like someone with some serious totem pole carving skills had his way with it...  Greg

Hold it muzzle down and look at the buttstock bottom edge, and it's pretty clear (at least to me) there is carved an eye, mouth (with teeth) and big ear.  Probably a mirror image carved on the opposite side, to make a complete face when looking at it edge-on.  Very intriguing.  Someone with way more artistic talent than me had a lot of time on their hands....