Barrel Rib & Thimble Tinning

[Ray Pennington]

Gentleman, I have cut my solid overlapping rid to length and have notched & fit the front and mid thimbles for the ram rod.  1" octogon straight barrel.
Would some of you experts give me some advice on tinning and attaching the thimbles and rib on the barrel.  I have quit a bit of experiences in soldering copper and brass but have not "tinned" metal parts together.  Building a Hawken style half stock.

[T*O*F]

have notched & fit the front and mid thimbles for the ram rod.

did you file flats on the bottom of the thimbles until the holes in them lay even with the depression in the rib?

[Ray Pennington]

T*O*F:  Yes I did file flats on the bottom of the thimbles and the ID of the thimbles align with the rib.  I clamped the rib and thimbles to the barrel and the rod slids easily through both thimble and aligns with the entry thimble.

[Lucky R A]

   When I put a rib on, I clamp the barrel in a downward angle in the vice with the breech uppermost.  I then start heating the barrel at the rear most area where the rib will go.  I use a Mapp gas torch.  I use regular plumber solder and solder paste.  As soon as the solder will melt onto the barrel I start chasing a blob of solder down the barrel heating and spreading with an old screwdriver.  Continue until you get to an thin film of solder on the barrel out to the muzzle.  I forgot to mention that before you start heating coat the side flats with soap stone to keep the run over solder from sticking.  Do the rib the same way.  After the both have been tinned, clamp the rib to the barrel with spring clamps I use six alternate clamping from each side.  The barrel should now be level in the vice   Now re-heat the barrel until the solder under the rib flows and joins with the solder on the barrel.   Let everything cool, then clamp and install the ram rod pipes with solder,  As extra insurance I put a spring clamp on either side of the ram rod pipe when soldering it into place.   Scrub the solder paste off and clean up with a Scotch Brite pad.  If you have a little solder that needs removed an old chisel easily removes it.  Places that sell products to do stained glass projects also sell a product that turns solder black if you need to blacken any solder.  The job is a little messy, but produces a very secure bond of rib to barrel w/o the worry of drilling and threading holes. 

Good luck
Ron

[Ray Pennington]

Lucky R A;   Thanks for the instruction!!!   I was going to use an old putty knife to spread & flatten the solder.   I was wondering on how to darken the solder after cleanup.... I'll try to find the product you mentioned..  again thank you

   When I put a rib on, I clamp the barrel in a downward angle in the vice with the breech uppermost.  I then start heating the barrel at the rear most area where the rib will go.  I use a Mapp gas torch.  I use regular plumber solder and solder paste.  As soon as the solder will melt onto the barrel I start chasing a blob of solder down the barrel heating and spreading with an old screwdriver.  Continue until you get to an thin film of solder on the barrel out to the muzzle.  I forgot to mention that before you start heating coat the side flats with soap stone to keep the run over solder from sticking.  Do the rib the same way.  After the both have been tinned, clamp the rib to the barrel with spring clamps I use six alternate clamping from each side.  The barrel should now be level in the vice   Now re-heat the barrel until the solder under the rib flows and joins with the solder on the barrel.   Let everything cool, then clamp and install the ram rod pipes with solder,  As extra insurance I put a spring clamp on either side of the ram rod pipe when soldering it into place.   Scrub the solder paste off and clean up with a Scotch Brite pad.  If you have a little solder that needs removed an old chisel easily removes it.  Places that sell products to do stained glass projects also sell a product that turns solder black if you need to blacken any solder.  The job is a little messy, but produces a very secure bond of rib to barrel w/o the worry of drilling and threading holes. 

Good luck
Ron

[PPatch]

I tinned the flat on the rib I had filed, didn't bother with the pipe. I then made sure the pipe was properly prepared for the solder (very clean, plenty of flux applied), clamped the rib and pipe together and soldered the two together.



The brass shims you see at the end of the pipes are for centering the "ramrod," in this case a steel rod, in the pipes. At each end you see clamped to the rib heat sinks, this prevents the heat from effecting the next pipe over. I also used wet shop towels to aid in dissipating heat, protecting adjacent pipes. Also; that jar with the cloudy liquid is a homemade pickling solution of vinegar, with a tablespoonful of baking powder, which I preheat by simply dropping a short length of red hot bar steel into prior to soldering operations.



Hope that helps.

Add; I then riveted the rib to the barrel.



dave

[Ray Pennington]

Thank you PPatch!!!  Great information, I especially liked the heat sink idea...  Now what was the viniger & soda used for?

[BJH]

A tip for after solder clean up. A sharp cheap carving chisel will pare off solder nicely. Then use sand paper to finish removal. Try to keep your fingers off the joint areas during this process. Then wipe on some cold blue on the joint areas you have cleaned. It will make any remaining solder easily visible. When you have finished the clean up there will be no need to color the solder line. BJH

[Ray Pennington]

Thank you BJH for the info.... I'm going to brown the barrel, will it work the same way as the cold blue?

[PPatch]

Thank you PPatch!!!  Great information, I especially liked the heat sink idea...  Now what was the viniger & soda used for?

The concoction was used to clean the solder after the soldering operation, to remove that baked on, blackened flux. It is best if the pickling solution is warmed prior to use, but it will work cold, it just takes longer. In this application I used a stiff brush to apply the solution, for small parts you just dip it into the pickling solution. It leaves the solder joint bright and clean.

dave

AND; Credit where credit is due - the pipe soldering technique I learned from Taylor Sapergia, as demonstrated in one of his Hawken rifle building tutorials here on ALR.

[Ray Pennington]

Thanks Dave, great info!!

[PPatch]

Thanks Dave, great info!!

You are welcome, good luck. Also, I forgot... You'll want to file a flat on the bottom of your pipe, and, any area you don't want solder on coat with graphite from a pencil, it will act as a "resist."

dave

[P.W.Berkuta]

Like the others have said and shown I do virtually the same except I silver braze on my pipes then solder the rib on the barrel with Stay-Brite. I use steel wool to move the solder along the surfaces to tin them after I flux them. I use "bailing wire" to secure the rib to the barrel and heat the surfaces of both to flow the Stay-Brite. At the moment I am "fighting" with the idea of riviting the rib assembly on but I hate to drill holes in the barrel if I can avoid it. Here are some pictures

[Ray Pennington]

Thanks I really appreciate the in info, especially the pictures!! A great help!!!!

[BJH]

Once your happy with your solder clean up using the cold blue for a tell tale to find that last bit of solder, then sand the cold blue off as part of your final finishing process. If you keep your fingers off the steel from here on you can apply what ever cold browning solution you choose immediately after your sanding is complete. I use wakon bay browning solution, and have found that it will chew through any cold blue I missed. After all cold blues really have no rust protecting properties any how. BJH

PS I should have read your question better I suppose, the cold blue is just used to help you see where any extra spots of solder needs to be removed. The solder will not color and can easily be seen for removal. After a couple of go rounds of sanding and scrapeing and check bluing. You will have joints that need no hiding.

[Ray Pennington]

Thanks BJH...... I tinned & installed the under rib & thimbles today and came out pretty well,,,, now the clean up begins!!!   I did in fact try the cold blue and works great for finding the solder specks!!!
Thanks again!!

[BJH]

Your welcome! I have trouble in my shop seeing the subtle color difference between solder and steel the cold blue makes it simple. Good luck BJH