Author Topic: Stock scraping question  (Read 17318 times)

Treebeard

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Stock scraping question
« on: April 13, 2017, 04:12:31 AM »
I have read a number of comments on this forum about scraping a stock instead of sanding it prior to application of finish. What tool is used to do this? Piece of broken glass  or sharpened metal or?

Offline David Rase

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Re: Stock scraping question
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2017, 04:43:47 AM »
Use metal.  Glass will go dull on you plus it is very irregular.  I have made several different scrapers from larger cabinet scraper steel.  I have a couple of flats, concave and convex of different radii.
David
« Last Edit: April 13, 2017, 04:44:20 AM by David Rase »

Offline L. Akers

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Re: Stock scraping question
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2017, 04:50:32 AM »
I have a set of store-bought cabinet scrapers, available from any woodworking tool supply co., and I use old saw blades to make custom shapes.

Treebeard

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Re: Stock scraping question
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2017, 07:31:59 AM »
Thanks for the responses -- I will look up cabinet scrapers. I have done a lot of sanding on wood but this sounds interesting.

Offline Jerry V Lape

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Re: Stock scraping question
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2017, 08:05:51 AM »
I have commercial scrapers, saw blade pieces and the most used one is from a pack of blades for a paint scraper 1/2" x 2 1/4" by .003 thick.  It is small but really useful. 

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Stock scraping question
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2017, 02:39:59 PM »
I use a razor blade.....seems I'm a minimalist when it comes to tools.... :o
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n stephenson

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Re: Stock scraping question
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2017, 03:32:20 PM »
Like Mike I use razor blades the ones I use are the one`s that go in a utility knife. I can shape one quickly on my belt sander to whatever shape I need.

Offline oldtravler61

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Re: Stock scraping question
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2017, 04:14:33 PM »
   Dennis Preddy a well known Michigan gun builder makes a set with a handle with interchangeable blades in different shapes. If interested p.m. an will give you his #. You can also make them from hack saw blades.  Oldtravler

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Stock scraping question
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2017, 04:24:50 PM »
Old fashioned scrapers were first squared ( that is, making sure the edges are 90 degrees) and then a slight bur is rolled on the edge, to give it a bit of a hook. They work very well, and seem to be less likely to create low spots. They are a little tricky if you mount your furniture, and then decide you still need to remove more wood. The pin holes that hold the pins, that retain the furniture, can cause the scraper to leave a slight groove, if particular care isn't taken, which will show on the finished gun.

  Hungry Horse

Offline WKevinD

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Re: Stock scraping question
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2017, 08:03:14 PM »
The pin holes that hold the pins, that retain the furniture, can cause the scraper to leave a slight groove, if particular care isn't taken, which will show on the finished gun.

  Hungry Horse

Here I thought I was the only one that suffered thru "pin grooves" with scrapers.

Kevin
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Offline Mark Elliott

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Re: Stock scraping question
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2017, 12:21:31 AM »
I use a blunted (sharpened on a stone at a 90 degree angle)  utility knife blade, a set of Jerry Fisher stock scrapers, and a custom scraper.  The custom scraper was filed from a Sandvik scraper blank with various curves (like a french curve) useful in scraping a stock.   I would suggest you buy some scraper stock and file what you need.   I use scrapers for final shaping as well as finishing.    Scrapers shape in a way that is very hard to do with sandpaper.   I am really not sure how you build a gun without them although I know people do. 

ron w

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Re: Stock scraping question
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2017, 02:51:57 PM »
I read about a lot of guys using razor blades, utility knife blades and all sorts of sharp-edged objectslike glass to scrape with. these "tools" are not scrapers and although they do peel off a curl of wood, they also, compress the fibers under the blades,...exactly what a scraper is not supposed to do. this is because they do not have a properly shaped cutting edge. the edge a real scraper is filed 90 degrees and then a fine lip is formed on that edge by burning the corner of the scraper. it is this lip that is what a scraper is all about,.... it is this lip that does the work a scraper is supposed to do.  razor blades, utility knife blades and glass do not have any such lip. the surface left by a proper scraper, is clean and uncompressed because that lip cuts in front of the pressure put on the scraper when used. a proper scraper leaves the surface with the pores wide open to accept sealer and finish. any compression of the surface fibers closes the pores and prevents sealer and finish from entering deeply into the stock not allowing the finish to gather light to show off the figure. this dulls the clarity of the beutiful grain we pay so much to get.  there are several good sources of information about making a proper scraper around, mostly in books and articles that have to do with good high power gun stocks.  glass razor blades and utility knife blades are shortcuts that actually diminish the beuty of the woods figure we pay for.

Offline okieboy

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Re: Stock scraping question
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2017, 06:47:54 PM »
 Quick, Mike, quick! Lock the door! The scraper police are headed for your house right now! :)
Okieboy

Offline tallbear

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Re: Stock scraping question
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2017, 07:24:42 PM »
Quote
razor blades and utility knife blades are shortcuts that actually diminish the beauty of the woods figure we pay for

I've got to respectfully disagree...This recently completed  stock was scraped with utility knife blades(a method I learned from Gary Brumfield and Al Martin).Don't believe the blades diminished this stock a whole lot  .... ;)

Mitch






n stephenson

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Re: Stock scraping question
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2017, 08:19:10 PM »
Mitch, VERY NICE!!!  That is one nice rifle. Thanks for posting. I`m glad you "diminished" that wood to a point I could handle it ! If it looked any better you would  have to charge admission.   Great Job!!!

Offline smallpatch

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Re: Stock scraping question
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2017, 08:49:29 PM »
Mitch,
I too am of the Allen Martin school.
I use commercial scrapers, ( two different thicknesses) to final shape, then carpet knife blades, with tape on one edge, and a slight hook turned on a fine stone for finishing.
Nothing, repeat, nothing allows stains to their job like a scraped surface!!!
Just look at Mitch's rifle.
I've got a couple of different blades with different contours for those, not so flat surfaces.
PLUS...... I'd much rather scrape than sand!
In His grip,

Dane

Offline David Rase

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Re: Stock scraping question
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2017, 08:51:26 PM »
Quote
razor blades and utility knife blades are shortcuts that actually diminish the beauty of the woods figure we pay for

I've got to respectfully disagree...This recently completed  stock was scraped with utility knife blades(a method I learned from Gary Brumfield and Al Martin).Don't believe the blades diminished this stock a whole lot  .... ;)
Mitch
Just think how nice that rifle would of turned out had you not used a utility knife blade.  ;D

I have some scrapers with and some without hooks.  The utility knife, carpet knife and scrapers without hooks are great for final finishing as they are not as aggressive as a scraper with a hook.  You just need a sharp 90 degree edge.
David   

Offline Marcruger

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Re: Stock scraping question
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2017, 10:04:30 PM »
Mitch, posting that rifle in a debate was just unfair.  That's like bringing a bazooka to an arm-wrestling match.  ;-)  Seriously, that is some beautiful work.  I'll bet it feels nice too.  Best wishes,   Marc

somehippy

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Re: Stock scraping question
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2017, 11:56:15 PM »
I bought a new pack of razor blades last night, was so giddy and excited to scrape with them, feel that new scraper feel, then realized it was 2 am lol.  Can't say I've been that happy about $1.50 in a while... The fresh ones, in my little experience, make thin wispy curls that probably do compress fibers, hence the "sheen" they seem to leave behind.  I've been making my own "bur" on them with a few licks from an Arkansas stone.  I've been using scalpel blades as well, their curvature seems to fit some nooks and crannies as well as the pointy end.  I give them a few licks on the side opposing the direction I'm scraping depending on how or where I'm scraping.  Making this small bur does make them cut/scrape easier, as well as "open" the grain as opposed to compressing fibres.  Just general observations from some hippy....


Offline rich pierce

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Re: Stock scraping question
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2017, 12:15:47 AM »
Glass microscope slides work well also.  Just watch closely and know when an edge is chipped.
Andover, Vermont

Offline mountainman

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Re: Stock scraping question
« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2017, 02:58:54 AM »
Scrapers with hooks?????????

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Stock scraping question
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2017, 04:41:05 AM »
Hook = burr.


Andover, Vermont

ron w

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Re: Stock scraping question
« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2017, 06:20:45 AM »
hhhhmmm, what do ya' know !.

Offline David Rase

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Re: Stock scraping question
« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2017, 07:11:16 AM »

Online smart dog

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Re: Stock scraping question
« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2017, 02:14:53 PM »
I read about a lot of guys using razor blades, utility knife blades and all sorts of sharp-edged objectslike glass to scrape with. these "tools" are not scrapers and although they do peel off a curl of wood, they also, compress the fibers under the blades,...exactly what a scraper is not supposed to do. this is because they do not have a properly shaped cutting edge. the edge a real scraper is filed 90 degrees and then a fine lip is formed on that edge by burning the corner of the scraper. it is this lip that is what a scraper is all about,.... it is this lip that does the work a scraper is supposed to do.  razor blades, utility knife blades and glass do not have any such lip. the surface left by a proper scraper, is clean and uncompressed because that lip cuts in front of the pressure put on the scraper when used. a proper scraper leaves the surface with the pores wide open to accept sealer and finish. any compression of the surface fibers closes the pores and prevents sealer and finish from entering deeply into the stock not allowing the finish to gather light to show off the figure. this dulls the clarity of the beutiful grain we pay so much to get.  there are several good sources of information about making a proper scraper around, mostly in books and articles that have to do with good high power gun stocks.  glass razor blades and utility knife blades are shortcuts that actually diminish the beuty of the woods figure we pay for.

Hi Ron,
I have used carpet scraper blades, knives, and properly sharpened and burnished cabinet scrapers.  Often I switch between all of those tools on a single rifle depending on the area of the stock I am working.  As long as my tools are sharp, I never see any differences or diminishing of the grain or figure. They all shear wood cleanly away.  I prefer to use the cabinet scrapers when I can because it is easier for me to hold the larger rectangle or French curve and apply pressure for longer working periods compared with a small razor or carpet scraper blade.  However, there are times when those smaller blades are useful, especially around details.  The rifle pictured below was scraped using all of the tools mentioned.  The patchbox side was scraped mostly with a properly sharpened and burnished rectangular cabinet scraper.  The patch box lid was scraped with a scary sharp carpet scraper blade and a carving knife.  The cheek piece side of the stock was mostly scraped using a carpet scraper blade and carving knives around the details.  A large French curve was used on the concave surface of the cheek piece itself.  I really can't see any loss of figure in the wood.

dave


             
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