Big Bang Dragoons. Need advice. To carve or not to carve,(new triggers finished)

[Rolf]

The pair of cal 0.82 dragoons are nearing completion. Whats left is to install the ligthning touch holes and maybe some "bling" details.  I'd like Your opinons on the "bling" details. Have problems making up my mind.

1. Carving-, I had planed to have a moulding around the siideplates , With beavertails and a shell tang carving. But, everything I Draw  makes the pistol look "crowed"? "lumpy"? I think the problem is the size of the Lock . It's chambers's round face Lock and is meant for rifles. Jim recommended it because of the size of the barrel. Mouldings seem to make the Lock look even bigger. Thinking of skipping the carving. Opinions?

2.  Solder on a low brass front sigth, half oval, about 1/2"long. Think it would look cool, but none of the dragoons I've seen, have front sigths. Opinons?

3. Ether file a wedding band at the breech end or file a notch for a rear sigth.  Opinions?

4 Silver thumb shield.  Oval or standard dragoon shape?

5.The Stocks are made of some very Nice curly Walnut. What finish would make the curl pop?

Best regards
Rolf

[eddillon]

Rolf, you always do such beautiful work..  IMHO, if the figure will pop out at you, carving detracts from the beauty of the wood.  What you have created is fantastic-again!

[Dennis Glazener]

5.The Stocks are made of some very Nice curly Walnut. What finish would make the curl pop?

In my opinion using black grain filler to fill the open grain then using no stain finish with a nice oil finish such as Chambers Oil Finish.

Dennis

[smylee grouch]

Even if you don't carve them they will look great. Way cool Rolf.

[Daryl]

Agreed all the way around & what a brace of pistols that makes!!

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Beautiful work Rolf!  I wouldn't hesitate to apply forestock moldings and shell carving.  Your beavertails will need to be shallow because of the tangs on the butt caps.  A small low brass or silver front sight soldered to the barrel would make aiming the pistols more natural.  Your eye will centre the front sight on the round breech end of the barrel, so no rear sight is necessary.  These are horse pistols for close in work - save your sights for target pistols.
Thanks for showing us these...really enjoyed them.

[greybeard]

They stand alone in their elegance . No bling needed here. Bob

[smart dog]

Hi Rolf,
Beautiful pistol!  Here is one way to deal with the big lock, make the molding very narrow.  In fact, on my gun pictured, the flat almost disappears toward the rear of the lock.  This is inspired by molding on an original 1760-1770 English fowling gun that I own. If it was my project, I would just carve a simple apron around the barrel tang much like a Brown Bess musket.



Also Rolf, don't get hung up on the idea that you have to continue the molding and beaver tail all the way around the lock including a front shield or apron.  The line that forms the beaver tail and molding around most of the lock can just fade away on the bottom of the stock as it approaches the front of the lock.  This is how many English guns were done.  By all means carve a forward shield if you prefer, but don't think you have to have that feature if you carve a molding around most of the lock and include beaver tails.

dave

[Rolf]

5.The Stocks are made of some very Nice curly Walnut. What finish would make the curl pop?

In my opinion using black grain filler to fill the open grain then using no stain finish with a nice oil finish such as Chambers Oil Finish.

Dennis

Nobody sells grain filler in Norway. Is there anyway to make a black grain filler?

Best regards
Rolf

[Cory Joe Stewart]

I agree with the points made here.  I would put a finish on that beautiful work and just step back and stare at it.  Beautiful work.

Cory Joe Stewart

[Marcruger]

I'll throw my hat in that ring too.  Unless you just want to show off you carving talent (like Ed Wenger for example), I'd leave it just like it is and add finish.  I think that since the architecture is sleek, it looks super right now.  If you want to add bling, that is fine, but it doesn't need it (to my eye).  Best wishes and God Bless,  Marc

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Dave:  I love that trigger and guard relationship.

[smart dog]

Hi Taylor,
Thanks.  I had to reshape the bow to give it an egg-shaped inner profile rather than the original oval.  By doing that it creates more space forward for your finger and looks a lot better.  Then I angled the trigger back a little.  The trigger feel is really nice.  It has a crisp light break with no creep at all.  I've never reconciled myself to what kind of trigger pull I like for off hand shooting.  I used to compete in biathlon and have an Anschutz target rifle with a 2-stage trigger.  It has a preset amount of creep and then a crisp break.  I always thought that I liked that "feel" for off hand.  However, on my little English rifle, I am shooting that hard crisp trigger break really well and so now I am confused and don't know what I like anymore.

dave

[Daryl]

Dave:  I love that trigger and guard relationship.

The sweep of the trigger, is PERFECTLY matched to the lines of the guard - perfect, Dave!

THIS is the only change I can see worthwhile on your pistols, Rolf. Relatively easy to do and worth it, in my unwashed opinion.

[helwood]

Greetings Rolf
You mentioned that you can't get Grain Filler.  It's easy.  You can make it yourself.  And I have,  what you do is find a brick that is close to the color you want for the stock.  The classic red brick is everywhere but I needed something for a Jaeger I was working on that needed a darker color, a black brown.  The Guy at the brick yard was so interested in what I only wanted One brick for he gave it to me for telling him what I was going to do with it.  After you have your Brick nock off a corner and with a mortar and pestle grind it to the finest powder you can, then mix it with the varnish of your choice. I would say a wiping varnish.(little faster drying)   That is pretty much all grain filler is.  Buy it in a store you have to buy a life time supply of each color.  This way you make what you need.  When you rub off any grain filler rub across the grain before it drys so you leave it in the grain and don't pull it out of the grain.  Applying or using grain filler is another lesson. Hope this helps, if not for this project maybe something in the future.   Later, Hank

[Rolf]

Thank you all for Your kind comments and advice. So far, I've solderd on front sigths and filed weddingbands at the breech ends and inleted dragoon shaped sterling silver thumb Shields. I've orderd black Wood filler and finishing oil from Chambers. Hopefully they will ship it abroad. Didn't think about the triggers before Daryl pointed them out. Going to scrap them and make something along the lines of Dave's trigger. Have not been able to decide wether to carve or not. Think I'm leaning to not carving.

I am going to case the pistols in Cherry, following Smart dogs tutorials. Will post Pictures again when the Project is finished.

Best regards
Rolf

[Rolf]

Finished the new triggers for the dragoons last week end. These are milled and filed out of 1/2 inch flate Stock steel. It was easier to get the shape I wanted this way, than cold forging. Could not get the curves I wanted cold forging 1/8 inch flatstock. The trigger shoe crumbeled and cracked. I tried hot forging using a propane torch, but  I was not able to forge the curves on the shoe without crumpeling the tiggerblad out of shape.

Tried to Down Pictures but the net kept timing out. Will try again later.

Best regards
Rolf

[Seth Isaacson]

I think the only "bling" I'd even consider on them would be maybe some very subtle engraving and some appropriate thumb plates with your monogram/initials and/or family coat of arms. Beautiful work so far!

[Bob Roller]

They stand alone in their elegance . No bling needed here. Bob

No "bling".They are fine as they are.

Bob Roller

[Rolf]

Managed to Down load the trigger Pictures.

Best regards
Rolf

[smart dog]

Hi Rolf,
Those are going to be great pistols!!  I just want to mention one of my observations about many military pistols from that time period with round-faced locks.  Most often have almost no flats showing around the lock.  I do that by shaping the lock panel right down to the edge of the lock and then a few swipes of fine sandpaper or a scraper across the top of the panel creates a minute flat.  When I see a mid-18th century military pistol with a round-faced lock and noticeable flats around the plate, it is almost always a modern creation.

dave 

[Jeff Stewart]

I think that new trigger really works well, Rolf.  Gives it a graceful sense of movement.

[Hemo]

Dave (Smart Dog),

The picture you posted above came up with the Photobucket blocker image for me. Apparently Taylor was able to see it, but I can't  get to it. Can you fix?

Thanks,

Gregg

[SingleMalt]

I agree with Taylor, a modest forestock molding wouldn't hurt anything.  It would, I think give a visual impression of slimming the forestock.  I love large "dragoon" or "horse pistols."  Where'd you find the brass hardware for the stocks and the monster-caliber barrel?

[Rolf]

I agree with Taylor, a modest forestock molding wouldn't hurt anything.  It would, I think give a visual impression of slimming the forestock.  I love large "dragoon" or "horse pistols."  Where'd you find the brass hardware for the stocks and the monster-caliber barrel?

The barrels were made from a used 20mm Vulcan cannon barrel .http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=28822.msg275168#msg275168
Then brass was bougth from muzzelloader building suppiles. Standard dragoon butt cap. The spurs had to be straigthen and modified to fit the Stock.
French dragoon triggerguard. Sideplate is from a Fowler. Lock is Chambers round face Colonial (rifle Lock).

Best regards
Rolf