Author Topic: An Appreciation of William Bailes  (Read 6159 times)

Online smart dog

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An Appreciation of William Bailes
« on: April 22, 2017, 01:05:06 AM »
Hi,
I am in the process of building a 1765-1775 English fowling gun sized to fit a teenager or petite woman.  It is for the wife of a reenactor friend, who also is active in living history and the gun will represent a better quality export gun from London but not first quality.  Every gun I build is an historical adventure for me, which is why I do it.  In this case, with respect to the stock architecture, lock, and hardware, I was inspired by the work of Griffin and Tow and most importantly, William Bailes.  When I begin a gun, my first stop is my library of references, books and photos.  In reviewing all of my books on British gun making, I kept encountering statements like, “the first to intentionally color case harden parts was William Bailes”, and “the first to attach a sighting rib to double barrel fowling guns was William Bailes”, and “the first to place a roller between the feather spring and frizzen was William Bailes”, and “the first to case sporting guns (usually Japanned tin cases lined with baize fabric) was William Bailes”.  Like Joe Manton, William Bailes was a great gun maker, and like “Old Joe” he died penniless.  Bailes was a very great gun maker but he suffered because he catered solely to the wealthy crowd of sportsmen and never secured large government contracts for military arms.  Like today, the gun makers that got wealthy did so with military contracts.  The rich sporting crowd were notoriously bad and slow at paying bills and many of the best British gunmakers were ruined by those society thieves.  Anyway, I am a William Bailes fan and I raise a toast of a good single malt scotch to that great gun maker.     

dave
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greybeard

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Re: An Appreciation of William Bailes
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2017, 01:14:43 AM »
Hello Dave.  I would enjoy a sip of that smokey brew, Bob

Offline mtlonghunter

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Re: An Appreciation of William Bailes
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2017, 02:05:46 AM »
If you email me at mtlonghunter@gmail.com I can get you some photos of an original  Bailey fowler that is in my gun room for a while yet. I also have some copies of the thumb piece in brass if you are interested.

Offline Denny Ducet

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Re: An Appreciation of William Bailes
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2017, 07:39:32 PM »
Original William Bailes Fowler 1760.  Owned by a friend.  Still sparks and he has shot her.









upload photograph

Offline Robert Wolfe

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Re: An Appreciation of William Bailes
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2017, 07:48:34 PM »
Very nice. An internal frizzen spring I take it?
Robert Wolfe
Northern Indiana

Online smart dog

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Re: An Appreciation of William Bailes
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2017, 08:11:55 PM »
Hi Denny,
That is a fabulous gun by Bailes.  Is it OK for me to download the photos to my photo library?  Thanks for sharing them.

dave
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline Majorjoel

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Re: An Appreciation of William Bailes
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2017, 08:57:30 PM »
Dave, I was wondering what you think of the L&R Bailes Lock?

I am just finishing up a rifle stocked in some very fine walnut that I used this lock and in it's first test outing on the shooting range was a complete success!  Very fast and no mis-fires or pan flashes!

I did a bit of stoning and polishing of the internals' contact points as well as the usual clean up of the castings.

It is a smaller lock and a bit on the late side of the flintlock era, but it fit very well with my project which has kind of a wide, flat butt at 2". ;D   

I was at first  going to use a small Siler but the Bailes with its slightly curved lower lock plate fit my rifle's  contour much better.

   
Joel Hall

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Re: An Appreciation of William Bailes
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2017, 09:29:54 PM »
Hi Joel,
The Bailes lock, also called the small Manton, is not associated with William Bailes.  It is a later design.  I think it can be made into a good lock but it is that curve on the bottom that I do not like.  It makes it hard to fit on typical English gun designs, which most often have locks with straight bottom edges like the Bailes above. Folks often recommend the Bailes lock for pistols  but again I dislike the curved bottom.  It often makes for pistols with the front of the lock tipped down slightly because of the curve.  Regardless, the lock can be made into a fine working one with some tuning and finishing.  Keep in mind it is a late 1770's perhaps 1780s and later design.  For a colonial or early Rev War era gun, it is too late.

dave 
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline Denny Ducet

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Re: An Appreciation of William Bailes
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2017, 10:21:55 PM »
Hi Denny,
That is a fabulous gun by Bailes.  Is it OK for me to download the photos to my photo library?  Thanks for sharing them.

dave

Certainly.  Glad you enjoyed them. I may have some more.

Offline Denny Ducet

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Re: An Appreciation of William Bailes
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2017, 10:22:32 PM »
Very nice. An internal frizzen spring I take it?

Yes.  Internal frizzen spring. 

Offline Denny Ducet

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Re: An Appreciation of William Bailes
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2017, 10:28:20 PM »









Offline Ed Wenger

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Re: An Appreciation of William Bailes
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2017, 02:16:08 AM »
Denny..., thank you for posting the photos, beautiful Fowler!  I'm assuming the sideplate is silver?  Also the wrist escutcheon?  Thanks again,


       Ed
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Offline Denny Ducet

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Re: An Appreciation of William Bailes
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2017, 04:17:40 AM »
Denny..., thank you for posting the photos, beautiful Fowler!  I'm assuming the sideplate is silver?  Also the wrist escutcheon?  Thanks again,


       Ed

I believe you are correct.  Not sure if sterling silver or what he used at that time.   I am sure you know better than I do.  Privileged to have held this.

Offline Ed Wenger

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Re: An Appreciation of William Bailes
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2017, 02:11:49 PM »
Thanks, Denny!

      Ed
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Offline James Rogers

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Re: An Appreciation of William Bailes
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2017, 02:45:08 PM »
Very nice piece Denny. I think I know another fellow that got to handle or maybe even shoot that gun
« Last Edit: July 03, 2017, 07:40:47 PM by James Rogers »

n stephenson

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Re: An Appreciation of William Bailes
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2017, 05:15:13 PM »
Thanks Dave for starting this post and, thanks Denny for the beautiful pics. I always wondered about the L&R Bailes , I`ve used quite a few of them over the years and "assumed" they were patterned after his work. Thanks for the education Dave.   As a side note ,years ago my father had a Lance candy route and, the only place in town that ever stiffed him was the local country club.       Nate
« Last Edit: July 03, 2017, 05:23:59 PM by n stephenson »

Offline mtlonghunter

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Re: An Appreciation of William Bailes
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2017, 08:09:05 PM »
The side plate as well as all of the furniture on that fowler are steel. There is however his name in silver letters on the top barrel flat. And yes , James I have shot that gun many a time. Shoots great with a 600 round ball.

Offline Ed Wenger

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Re: An Appreciation of William Bailes
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2017, 08:36:19 PM »
Thanks for the info, mtlonghunter.....

      Ed
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Offline Denny Ducet

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Re: An Appreciation of William Bailes
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2017, 07:18:59 AM »
The side plate as well as all of the furniture on that fowler are steel. There is however his name in silver letters on the top barrel flat. And yes , James I have shot that gun many a time. Shoots great with a 600 round ball.

I saw it spark and was amazed to hear some have shot her.  Beautiful rifle indeed.