Author Topic: Vinegar iron stain questions  (Read 5739 times)

Offline Pennsylvania Dutchman

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Vinegar iron stain questions
« on: April 22, 2017, 09:20:31 PM »
I saved some clean, dry saw cuttings, from 1018-1026 hot rolled seamless tube, from my band hacksaw. I bought a gallon of 6 percent white cleaning vinegar. How much of the saw dust should I add to a 1/2 gallon of the vinegar? Do I ad some now and let it work, then add more later? Or do I add it all at once?
Thank you, Mark
Mark Poley

Offline Rolf

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Re: Vinegar iron stain questions
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2017, 11:07:11 PM »
When I made the stain I use, I used about 250gram(1/2 lb) liberon steelwool in in 1quart of vinegar. Took about 3-4 months to disolve. Doesn't matter if you add to much steel. When the solution is saturated, the iron stops disolving. I usally dilute the saturated stain with 3 parts water before use  and add coats until I'm happy with the color. NB! the Stock has to dry 24 hours for the final color to develop.

Best regards
Rolf

Offline flinchrocket

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Re: Vinegar iron stain questions
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2017, 12:35:43 AM »
Maybe I misunderstood something,but I diluted my stain with fresh vinegar.
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Offline Rolf

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Re: Vinegar iron stain questions
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2017, 01:54:58 AM »
Diluting With vinegar Works to. It will give you a more red tint , and it will take a bit longer for the final color to develop. (All the vinegar has to evaporate out of the Stock)

Best regards
Rolf
« Last Edit: April 23, 2017, 01:03:46 PM by Rolf »

Offline Pennsylvania Dutchman

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Re: Vinegar iron stain questions
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2017, 02:12:38 AM »
Thanks for the reply, Rolf!   I will make some up.
Mark
« Last Edit: April 23, 2017, 02:13:48 AM by Pennsylvania Dutchman »
Mark Poley

Offline Pennsylvania Dutchman

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Re: Vinegar iron stain questions
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2017, 02:15:06 AM »
Beautiful rifle, Flinchrocket!
Thanks, Mark
Mark Poley

Offline flinchrocket

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Re: Vinegar iron stain questions
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2017, 02:47:08 AM »
Thanks Rolf, I'll try diluting with water on my next rifle.


Penn. Dutchman,I appreciate the nice comment. That is a stock I bought from Jim Kibler a couple
years ago.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2017, 02:48:33 AM by flinchrocket »

Offline Clark Badgett

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Re: Vinegar iron stain questions
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2017, 04:02:59 AM »
I got a box of cast iron turnings to make mine from. I need to go check mine, it been a while since I did anything with it. Might have to reconstitute it.
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Dave Patterson

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« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2017, 04:34:11 AM »
I don't know if this is "right" or not, but it's worked for me, quite a few times.
 
I made up a batch of vinegar/iron solution several years ago, and keep it in an old glass jar with a wire-clamp lid:  made the stain with a batch of white vinegar and dumped a wad of washed and rinsed 0000 steel wool in it; let it "cook" until it stopped looking... well, angry, and went to mopping it on wood.  Never have measured any part of the recipe.

I usually save my staining jobs until summer (in NoNV):  mop a bunch on the stock 'til it doesn't seem to want to take anymore, then lay the stock out in the sun on a steel work bench on the south side of the house and let it dry 'til evening.  Bring it inside come sundown, and rub it down with steel wool.

I've used this on maple, and on both plain and figured walnut:  again, don't know if this is "right", but both The Bride and I like how it's come out, so far.

Don't know if that helps or not, but that's what I've been doing.

Flinchrocket, I don't know quite what your original question was, if there was one:  that rifle's a dandy. I'm with Dutchman on this one:  that's one purty stock!  I'd say, if whatever you've been doing works that good, I wouldn't worry much about what's "right" or "wrong"... as long as YOU like it. 

Offline Mark Elliott

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Re: Vinegar iron stain questions
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2017, 06:43:09 AM »
I make vinegar and iron stain by putting a disk of wrought iron in a quart of vinegar and leaving it for weeks until no more iron will go into solution.  I use it mainly for leather stain.   I prefer aqua fortis to stain wood.

Offline dogcatcher

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Re: Vinegar iron stain questions
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2017, 08:02:30 AM »
I have using the vinegar steel wool mix in woodworking for about 40 years.   I have tried all kinds of combinations.  From rusted steel wool in white vinegar to new steel wool in cider vinegar.  Rusted nails in all kinds of vinegars.  The difference can be dramatic.  I have thrown in old coffee grounds to get a more brown look.  Even added tea bags to add tannins to the wood.   James Kibler once mentioned adding tannins to the wood, I been there and done that years ago, turned the wood almost black, a real dark grey.  . 

I currently have a mix that has rusted steel wool and about a $1 worth of pennies.  I read somewhere that someone liked that result, but a triple bypass last year has the bottle of "stuff" still cooking.  Always and experiment of what will happen next.


Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Vinegar iron stain questions
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2017, 05:11:40 PM »
I guess I just got more frugal genes than the rest of you guys. I have a five gallon plastic bucket about two thirds full of white vinegar that I use to clean rusty antique cast iron cookware. I take some of the vinegar out  after a few pots, and Dutch ovens, get cleaned, thin it with a little fresh vinegar, and stain stocks with it.

  Hungry Horse

Offline Joe S.

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Re: Vinegar iron stain questions
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2017, 05:42:41 PM »
I know Mark likes aqua fortis over this stain.Do you folks who use it think it's superior to fortis?and why?
« Last Edit: April 23, 2017, 05:43:23 PM by Joe S. »

Offline WadePatton

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Re: Vinegar iron stain questions
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2017, 07:45:43 PM »
I know Mark likes aqua fortis over this stain.Do you folks who use it think it's superior to fortis?and why?

I think it's a different process, but "superiority" may mean a lot of different things to folks.  I like to use what it takes to get the best colors from the wood. Others may prefer not having to heat the wood to force the blush.  Some might prefer the convenience and safety of vinegar.  It has been suggested that there was vinegar a plenty in Early America and the Colonies as it was made locally. I've not studied that aspect, but this may resonate with some "purists".

Experiment and see.  The two batches of iron acetate I made gave different colors and I'm not sure why.  I need to stir 'em and refresh the vinegar and see.  They ate through the canning lids and lost some "pep".  Whoops!
Hold to the Wind

Offline WadePatton

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Re: Vinegar iron stain questions
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2017, 07:49:52 PM »
As I poured the vinegar back into the jug from my last "rusty tool revival session",  I thought
"Hey there's some good lookin' stain in that jug."    ;)


I guess I just got more frugal genes than the rest of you guys. I have a five gallon plastic bucket about two thirds full of white vinegar that I use to clean rusty antique cast iron cookware. I take some of the vinegar out  after a few pots, and Dutch ovens, get cleaned, thin it with a little fresh vinegar, and stain stocks with it.

  Hungry Horse
Hold to the Wind

Dave Patterson

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Re: Vinegar iron stain questions
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2017, 08:47:28 PM »
I know Mark likes aqua fortis over this stain.Do you folks who use it think it's superior to fortis?and why?

I think it's a different process, but "superiority" may mean a lot of different things to folks.  I like to use what it takes...

I use it 'cuz I'm a big ol' chickenlivered coward:  The Bride likes how things come out, so I use it 'cuz it makes her happy. 

I am, however in the planning stages of the next project or three, and am planning on doing some test-pieces with AF to pull out the striping in the wood I've got. 

Personally, I'm not "married" to any particular look, stain or method.  The one single thing I insist on is a resilient, tough finish that'll survive daily use, weather, and cleaning.

Offline Mark Elliott

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Re: Vinegar iron stain questions
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2017, 11:55:54 PM »
There is nothing wrong with using vinegar and iron stain on wood.   It just doesn't get dark enough for my taste in most cases.    I can see times where I might use it.   

Offline Long John

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Re: Vinegar iron stain questions
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2017, 05:19:29 PM »
Friends,

There is no "secret" to making vinegar/iron stain.  Vinegar is a solution containing acetic acid.  Acetic acid will react with iron the same way nitric acid does.  Since acetic acid as not as "strong" an acid as nitric the concentration of iron ions in the solution of iron acetate will not be as high as you will get with iron nitrate (nitric acid).  I have an earthen ware crock I bought at colonial Williamsburg 20 years ago.  I tossed in some old nails I found around an old rotting barn and some old rusty barbed wire and about half a gallon of cider vinegar bought at the super market.  I put some plastic wrap over the top and let it do its thing.  For the past 20 years, each time I have a rifle done I add some fresh cider vinegar, stir, let ti settle and decant off the top some clear iron acetate solution for a gun stock.

This is the most recent gun.



This gun is from last year.



This gun is from about 8 years ago.



This gun is about 10 years ago.



Same crock of stain, same technique. 

Make sure your stock is free of hand oils!  I generally wash the stock with warm water with a few drops of Dawn dish detergent in it.  Make sure your stock is well whiskered.  I use de-oiled 0000 steel wool for the first dewiskering, only.  For the second dewiskering I use a brush made from hemp rope to burnish the stock.  When I decant off a cup of stain to use, I add ONE drop of Dawn detergent to the stain to help reduce surface tension and enhance penetration.  Isopropanol will also work.  Because the concentration of iron ions is lower in iron acetate solution I use three coats will a day to dry in between.  There is no need to heat the stock with iron acetate stain
That's how I do it.

Best Regards,

John Cholin



Offline Pennsylvania Dutchman

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Re: Vinegar iron stain questions
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2017, 04:29:45 AM »
Thank you all for the replies, very helpful and appreciated.
Mark
Mark Poley

Offline Pennsylvania Dutchman

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Re: Vinegar iron stain questions
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2017, 04:33:45 AM »
Long John, Thank you for the detailed reply and photos. I really like the stock color of those rifles.
Mark
Mark Poley