Ruined my rifle's finish

[coopersdad]

So to top off a range session that didn't go well, when cleaning my rifle, a bit of black water leaked from the plugged touchhole and got past the towel stuffed around there (it went under the tang and out the back end of the tang, nicely doing an end-run around my block) and stained a nice black streak down the buttstock.  I panicked and tried lightly rubbing with a bit of steel wool, hoping it was still wet.  Of course when I wiped it down the streak was still mostly there and I'd managed to cut through the finish and the stock stain. 

Is there anything I could have used to remove the black and not damage the finish?  Since I've already messed it up, and probably will have to completely refinish, is there a chemical stripper that works on Chambers finish?

And, yeah I know if I cleaned it by taking the barrel out this wouldn't happen.  Then I'd be asking how to repair chipped out pin holes or a broken stock that I knocked off the bench with the barrel out of it.....

[Clark Badgett]

Part of BP shooting. Let nature take it's course, learn from it and let it be part of the rifles character. They are working firearms that are meant to be enjoyed. Dings, scratches and stains just show you love it enough to actually take it out of the safe confines of your home.

[FALout]

Did the same thing many rifles ago.  I didn't bother to fix, considered it a learning experience, beside, stripping the stock down would have been lots of work and maybe problematic.  I do not use any more water then a patch will hold.

[David R. Pennington]

I never trusted the plugging the touch hole idea. I always had the same results you experienced. I only take the barrel out if I need to pull the breechplug or if I've been hunting in the rain and need to make sure it is dry.
Here is how I clean in the field. I pull the lock off and clean it with water and a small chip brush. I lay it in the sun to dry or by the fire if it's cold, and clean the bore. I lay the rifle on it's side on two sandbags with the vent down and the muzzle a little lower than the breech and scrub it out with water and patches followed by dry patches then bear oil. I clean the barrel around the breech and lock recess area of any fouling (with water) and dry. I keep another chip brush for just oil and I oil the lock and use the chip brush to distribute the oil over all the parts of the lock the same time removing any excess oil. I will take one of my oily patches and wipe down the outside of the rifle, re-install the lock and I am done.
I guess you could say you added some patina to your rifle. I worked some boiled linseed oil into mine and it looks OK.

[Bill Raby]

I use Tru-Oil for stock finish and have always been able to just wipe off black streaks with a wet rag.

[jerrywh]

 If this stained your stock you had a poor finish to begin with. You should have been able to just wipe it off. Sorry but that's just a fact.

[conquerordie]

If this stained your stock you had a poor finish to begin with. You should have been able to just wipe it off. Sorry but that's just a fact.

This is the correct answer. We all make mistakes, and we all learn from them.

[galudwig]

My toothpicks always seem to leak or wick cleaning solution out of the touch hole no matter how tightly they are driven in.  I always remove the lock for cleaning, so I wad up a small piece of a bath towel and place it against the barrel around the toothpick.  I use a velcro strap to hold it in place while I'm cleaning the bore.  The wad of bath towel sops up any solution that gets out before it gets into the lock mortice and under the tang. When I'm done with the bore, I remove the wad of towel and toothpick and dry and lightly oil the area accordingly before reinstalling the lock. 

[Eric Kettenburg]

Collectors will pay a lot of extra money for that 'aging.' 

[Mark Elliott]

I agree with Jerry.  I only use a traditional oil finish which is admittedly not the best sealer in the world.  However,  black powder residue has always just wiped off with Ballistol and any water just rolls off.   Oh,  I also keep a coat of wax on the stock which helps.  Wax on wood is never a bad idea. 

[coopersdad]

I thought Jim Chambers finish was a good one.  I used several heavy coats followed by multiple thin coats rubbed on. Then wax. 

[jerrywh]

 Lightly rubbing won't go through the finish and the stain.

[Chowmi]

Mike,

I've got a couple of competing thoughts here, so bear with me. 
 
I have had all sorts of black water, fouling, etc etc on my guns with Chambers Oil finish and it wipes right off no problem. 

You didn't mention, but I will assume that you tried wiping it off first.  Assuming that didn't work, then I must wonder if your finish was not enough, and didn't fill the pores of the wood.  Added to that, you mentioned that a light buffing with steel wool cut the stain out. 

I have used steel wool on Chamber's finish to cut back the sheen and to even out streaks.  The first time I tried it was after too few coats of Chambers Oil and I got down to the stain on sharp edges by mistake (also, my finish was applied lightly and was not deep enough). After learning that lesson, I did not buff the finish until later in the process. 
That being said, with enough coats of Chambers Oil, I have several times buffed it lightly with steel wool or a scotch brite pad with no problem. 
All the above is to echo Jerry's comment that it shouldn't go through to the stain unless the oil finish and the stain are too thin.

However, I have watched you build rifles and know your skills, so I fully expect that you applied the finish correctly.

Could the water have migrated into the wood (underneath the finish) from inside the tang mortise?  How far did the black streak go?  If it was a long way, then this is not the answer.

Could the final coats of the finish have somehow separated from the wood, allowing the water to migrate below the finish and into the wood?  I'm thinking some sort of contamination around the tang that prevented the layers of finish from adhering to each other.  Could the finish have been lifted up at some point when your removed the barrel (unlikely)? I would think that you would have noticed that beforehand, because separated finish layers would cause an opaque look. 

Did you use some sort of solvent in the cleaning solution that may have degraded the finish, allowing the black streak to penetrate? 

There must be something else going on here, because Chambers Oil is a good finish and I know that you take great care in every step of the build.

I won't comment on how to fix it, because I don't know the best solution!!  If somebody tells you, I'd like to hear because I have a few pin holes that have split surfaces from punching the pins out to remove the barrel, (ha ha, goes back to why this all happened doesn't it??) and would like to remove the finish, re-stain, and re-oil....

Cheers,
Norm

[Ky-Flinter]

I thought Jim Chambers finish was a good one.  I used several heavy coats followed by multiple thin coats rubbed on. Then wax.

Chambers finish is a good finish.  Were you cleaning with some sort of chemical bore cleaner?  Plain water shouldn't have affected the finish, but maybe the steel wool cut thru the finish.

Since you're considering stripping and refinishing, why not try re-staining just the affected wood and apply Chambers finish over that and blend it into the existing finish and see how she looks.  You can still strip if it doesn't work out.

-Ron

[bob in the woods]

I noticed that you said the black stained water ran under the tang ?   I alway put some of my finish in the barrel, breach and tang inlets prior to assembling the rifle. If you are having the fouling penetrate the finish, you need a different finish. What do you currently have on the rifle ?

[hanshi]

I often get water from the bore leaking past the toothpick to the stock.  Though most of it is soaked up by paper towels packed around the breech, some still reaches the stock.  So far I haven't had any staining that would not simply wipe off.  So I'm also thinking the finish on your rifle isn't enough.

[coopersdad]

I must have messed up applying the Chambers finish.  I brushed on a fairly heavy coat, including the barrel and tang inlet, and lock and sideplate inlets, let it sit, reapplying to dry spots for 20 minutes or so, then wiped off. Repeated that once after the first coat dried.   Followed that with about 5 or so thin coats, small dabs rubbed on with a finger as far they'd go.  I waxed it but haven't reapplied for a while.

The black goo ran out the touch hole and past my rag, into and under the tang inlet and then out the back of the tang inlet, all the way down the upper cheekpiece to the buttplate.   

As soon as I saw it, I tried to wipe it off with clean water and a rag, and it was like trying to wipe off dried paint.  I thought if I got after it quickly it would be better than letting it dry too much, and tried the steel wool, hoping it was just on the finish surface.  I clearly rubbed too hard, probably because I was making progress removing the black.  But when I wiped the stock off, I saw I'd cut through the finish and much of the wood stain, and there was still a bit of black, so it went clear to the wood.  Of course I should've just let it be.

I'll try to restain the lighter areas and blend it and see how it looks.  I apparently need to go over the whole stock with many more coats of finish as well.     Thanks for everyone's help! 

[Daryl]

If this stained your stock you had a poor finish to begin with. You should have been able to just wipe it off. Sorry but that's just a fact.

Similar- custom rifle I bought some time ago at Dixons - seemed well stained and finished. At rendezvous one year, a fellow wanted me to try his new Wipe-Out BP solvent. "You don't even have to take the
barrel off, he said".  OK - sprayed it down the bore, and a drip got past the toothpick in the vent & ran down the stock from corner of the lock mortise to the butt plate. I now have a BLONDE streak 3/16" wide down the stock and will have to strip and re-finish. I should buy some of that stuff for the job at hand -   it sure cleaned off the finish and stain - virtually instantly!!

[WadePatton]

"Blackwater" striped my beeswaxed stock once, but was an easy patch up.  Didn't add much character at all.

I'm more careful with my picks now.

[coopersdad]

Spray-on sight black will do it too.  I used some on a bright day with a silver front sight blade on another rifle. Overspray got on the front of the rifle and I'd get a bit on my hands when loading, didn't think much of it. I'd reapply every so often if I brushed some off the sight.   Afterwards I had a hand-shaped spot of removed finish and stain on the forestock and wrist.  The solvent in it I'd guess.

[ron w]

most guys don't take the finishing process far enough to truly seal the stock. it takes quit a few applications and rubbing backs to get the kind of finish we read about in the gun magazines......more than most guys want to do.    most of all, there is such thing as a "quick, two or three application finish" !.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

"Black water cold and clear can never clean your wound.
There's none but the witch of the Westmoreland can make thee hale and soond!.".....Stan Rogers  Sorry - couldn't resist.

[bob in the woods]

Hi Taylor.  I knew Stan...shared the stage with him a few times. Stan always credited Archie Fisher as  the writer of that song.
[   BTW- I like Stan's version much better than Archie's }   

[Dan Fruth]

I had a similar experience. With an oil finish, I gently worked the area with #4 steel wool, and re-applied finish to the area, and in time the area blended to the rest of the finish. I think this is the beauty of an oil finish. I don't know what Jim makes his finish with, but I think I remember hearing it is a combination of linseed and Watco Danish oil....Please correct me if I am wrong.......Dan........Also, if need be, some oil pigment can be mixed with the finish.

[Long John]

Mike,

I am sorry to hear of your problem.

First, black powder fouling is 100 % soluble in cold water.  Using anything other than cold water will make any problems you encounter worse. 

Second, Like David R I clean my long guns by removing the lock, laying the gun down on a horizontal surface like a table with the touch hole pointed down and clean the gun with cold water while in that position.  I have NEVER seen a tooth-pick seal a touch hole effectively for more that a few minutes.  I guess other folks are smarter than I am, but I learned a long time ago that I can never trust them.

It is my view that the only time steel wool should touch a gunstock is while whiskering a new, unfinished stock.  When you apply steel wool to a finished stock it is cutting the finish off with each pass, opening up the pores of the wood to absorb anything that might be dissolved in water or other solvent.  Once in the wood it is tough to get out.

Finally a well-finished stock will shed the water like a duck's back.  But repeated exposure to caustic bases (a category of chemicals) will breakdown the stock finish.  Many stripping agents are caustic bases.  Using Windex to clean your stock will eventually remove the finish.  (I have done this, accidentally, of course.)  Black powder fouling is a caustic base solution. 

So, your going to have to strip and refinish your stock and change the way you clean your guns.  That's the unsavory truth.

Best Regards,

John Cholin