Well Used Plains Rifle

[louieparker]

I thought you might like to see a very well used Plains Rifle .  It has extreme "saddle wear" or could be caused by other means of transport. If you look at the wear  just in front of the rear ramrod pipe, you can see the stock is worn down below the side barrel flat. Its been broke and repaired and probably broke again.. But its still a rifle that could be used today. It might be interesting to see a video of this old boy's life.  I can't even imagine what it might have seen and done. Some things we might not want to see.

Its around 52 caliber and no makers mark. ......Louie












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[Mike Brooks]

Unmarked eh?  I'd bet money it's a Hawkins.
 Great old rifle. I got to get some pics of my old relics posted.

[Shreckmeister]

Was the rear ring of these trigger guards used to attach a lanyard?

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

...scalp lock, maybe!

[Bob Roller]

I thought you might like to see a very well used Plains Rifle .  It has extreme "saddle wear" or could be caused by other means of transport. If you look at the wear  just in front of the rear ramrod pipe, you can see the stock is worn down below the side barrel flat. Its been broke and repaired and probably broke again.. But its still a rifle that could be used today. It might be interesting to see a video of this old boy's life.  I can't even imagine what it might have seen and done. Some things we might not want to see.

Its around 52 caliber and no makers mark. ......Louie












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Looks and  smells like an unmarked Hawken. Solid,no hook breech,the lock
and trigger guard all say Hawken to me.

Bob Roller

[oldtravler61]

  Sure wish science could make these old guns talk. Thanks for showing. Oldtravler

[jdm]

That has a great look to it. You can see the history on a rifle like that.

I just wish you would of taken better care of it when you were a boy!

[Hungry Horse]

I agree that the parts appear to be very Hawken in nature. But the stock does not. It is thick an clumsy in appearance. I suspect it to be an early restock of a damaged Hawken product.

  Hungry Horse

[Bob Roller]

I agree that the parts appear to be very Hawken in nature. But the stock does not. It is thick an clumsy in appearance. I suspect it to be an early restock of a damaged Hawken product.

  Hungry Horse

Or one made in a hurry for someone who needed it immediately.

Bob Roller

[Gaeckle]

I agree that the parts appear to be very Hawken in nature. But the stock does not. It is thick an clumsy in appearance. I suspect it to be an early restock of a damaged Hawken product.

  Hungry Horse

True, there's a lack of finesse.

[rich pierce]

I'm not sure there's a reason to think the Hawken design was unique.  This looks like a period knockoff at a lower price point.

[Herb]

Carefully compare this J&S Hawken which was owned by James  Dunn, Oregon Trail wagon master, to this plains rifle.  Pages copied from Jim Gordon's book "Great Gunmakers for the Early  West, volume III" with his permission.




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[louieparker]

I wanted it to be a Hawken. But I could not convince myself that Hawken had anything to do with its making, other than the similarities of the parts. They are close but not convincing. Ever who did it certainly was trying for the Hawken look.  I guess we will go with Mike's terminology, Its a Hawkins !

JDM.... I was a very destructive child,,,,

[Hungry Horse]

Herb;

  The Dunn Hawken is a little sketchy in my book. Look at the Belgian conversion to percussion, mated up with a later percussion  lock from a gun with a patent breech. And the back woodsy patch box that makes most Southern poor boys look like something special. If the Hawken brothers built this gun it must have been with parts from the junk box, on a Monday after a long drunk.

  Hungry Horse

[Herb]

The Dunn rifle is stamped J&S Hawken.  It don't get more definitive than that.  However,  they did not build it like this.  I has been heavily modified to keep it working.  Possibly cut from fullstock to halfstock.  Buttplate lost.  Toe of buttstock broken off and a repair glued in. Wooden heel added.  Patchbox added.  Barrel possibly set back and a nipple fitted to the side flat.  The hammer had to be bent to line up with it.   If you think you know what a Hawken looks like, you have to explain this one away.  I do not know if they also made the well-used plains rifle, but there are similarities.

[Hungry Horse]

Oddly enough, the feature on the first rifle that makes me think it is a restocked Hawken is the lock panels. They are bulbous and dwarf the lock, and side bolt escutcheon. I have never seen a Hawken with such oversized lock panels. This is a very common mistake made by amateur builders. The much butchered up Dunn Hawken doesn't have these oversized lock panels.
 And as for the barrel signature, I once saw a very nice 1 1/2" crow bar in a collection that was marked S. Hawken St. Louis.

  Hungry Horse

[Herb]

Better photos of the Dunn Hawken.  The lock panels are fatter than we are used to seeing and the wrist is also thicker.  The sideplate is unique.  The trigger guard is similar with a tight curl.



The tang was probably welded onto the butt plate (like the well-used plains rifle) and may have broken off when the rifle was dropped on its toe.  Thus the tang had to be replaced, he used wood.



Compare the tang shape and bolt locations.



This looks like a .50 caliber.

[Herb]

I know something about dropping a Hawken on its toe (I fell on icy rocks while elk hunting).  This is a.58 fullstock flint Hawken I built.  It surprised me how easily the buttplate bent.