hardening a siler frizzen

[gunlock]

I'm making a speedy repair to a friends large siler lock. One of the things I have to do is replace the frizzen. I have no experience hardening and tempering a commercially made lock and don't want to have it fail on him. What do I quench the frizzen in? I suspect not water and what is the best way to temper it? I make my own locks for my personal guns from wrought irom forge, file, polish, engrave and harden in the traditional manner so this is a new experience for me.

[deepcreekdale]

Per the Siler/Chambers instructions you use a light oil, I use a light spindle oil from Graingers and it works well. Definitely do not use water. Years ago I used shock absorber oil for motorcycles, readily available at any motorcycle shop. It is about 5-7 weight and also worked well.

[Long John]

Gunlock,

On the Chambers locks I have built from a casting set I used diesel fuel as a quench medium.  All the locks spark well.  I did not get good results when I uses SAE 10 oil.

Best Regards,

JMC
John Cholin

[flehto]

Have hardened and tempered a few Chambers Siler frizzens and they all functioned well.

To get even heating and a little soak time I use a section of pipe w/ an end cap screwed on.... has {4} 3/16 dia drilled holes in the cap. The frizzen is wired through the pivot hole and placed inside the pipe. A Mapp Gas torch heats the frizzen to a red, little bit orange color and is quenched in light motor oil.  It's then placed in the kitchen oven set at 375 degrees for 1 hr. If the striking surface has been polished, a straw color will be present after tempering. My oven has been checked w/ a thermobridge and the temp setting is compensated  accordingly.

The pivot area and toe are heated to a vivid blue color w/ the Mapp Gas torch and that's it. The frizzens so treated have sparked well w/ no breakage. A heat treat oven would make it easier.....Fred

[L. Akers]

I have done several Siler/Chambers frizzens with excellent results.  Instructions that come with the lock kits say to heat to 1550 degrees F.  I don't have a furnace, and color being very subjective, I heat with a Mapp torch to the point the frizzen is no longer attracted to a magnet and quench in canola oil heated to 130 degrees.  When quenching, keep the part moving in the oil until it has cooled.  Tempering can be done in your kitchen oven per Fred's instruction.  Kit instructions say to temper at 400 degrees but try Fred's 375 first.  If the frizzen seems too hard, you can always retemper at 400.

[P.W.Berkuta]

I have done many Bud Siler & Chambers kits. I first build a little open front "oven" out of fire bricks with the top brick slightly away from the back wall to allow the back pressure of the flame to escape. This little oven allowed me to use one or two hardware store propane torches or a Mapp gas torch with effectiveness at the time.  I heat to a little above magnetic and hold the heat for about 5 to 7 minutes. I then quench in warm Canola oil (use a large container - don't be cheap). I temper in my oven @ 375 degrees and I put two oven thermometers in the oven in a position that I can monitor the temp from the window on the oven. I soak at the 375 temp for one hour and then shut off the oven and let cool. You can heat the tail of the frizzen to a blue color if you want but I never had a issue with breakage doing it this way. Many ways to do it. The first one I did back in 1969 was in a electric heat treat furnace where I worked. The parts were destroyed  I called Bud Siler and complained to him that his written instructions were faulty and that I followed the instructions to the letter and controlled the temps using a electric heat treat oven he gruffly said that MOST people use a torch not a heat treat oven -- he basically told me to get lost and he would not replace the parts - this left me with a bad taste in my mouth for a long time - but he was the "only game in town" for lock kits at that time.

[Jim Chambers]

All the above will work fine.  Just be sure not to quench in water.  And, be sure you get the frizzen up to a very bright red/orangish color.  Propane does not get hot enough.  Mapp will work well on a small Siler frizzen, but a large one needs more heat or (as above) a way to concentrate the heat so you get up to 1550 degrees.  A kitchen oven works well for tempering at 375 to 400.

[Frank]

I have a large siler lock that has a soft frizzen that does not spark well and don't have the equipment to get a frizzen that hot.

Jim, do you re-harden frizzens, and what is the cost?  Thanks

[bob in the woods]

I use a charcoal fire and a small bellows. Works extremely well, and it's a carbon rich fire.

[Jim Chambers]

Frank,
Yes, I just finished re-hardening three frizzens this morning.  We usually charge $20 for this service.
Jim

[Frank]

Frank,
Yes, I just finished re-hardening three frizzens this morning.  We usually charge $20 for this service.
Jim

Thanks Jim. I will bring the lock to Dixon's. See you there.

[Bob Roller]

The method I use(d) is about as modern as a stone ax. A #5 tip on a Presto Lite acetylene/acetone
tank and the frizzen made from ball bearing steel 52-100 special ordered and paid for by a German
customer that said his pistols were used in competitions all over Europe and he had to have longevity.
I heated these little Bailes frizzens to a bright orange and added Kasenit and quenched them in hydraulic
jack oil. Removed them with a magnet,wiped off the oil,polished them bright and drew the pan cover with
a Bernz O Matic torch to a dark blue and let the cool alone. 40+ years and only one returned for replacement
proves this primitive method works.

Bob Roller

[Frank]

Frank,
Yes, I just finished re-hardening three frizzens this morning.  We usually charge $20 for this service.
Jim

Thanks Jim. I will bring the lock to Dixon's. See you there.

Gave my lock to Barbie at Dixon's and got it back today. That lock will set your socks on fire. Thank you Jim.

[jerrywh]

 I heat to 1550°  or 1500° and quench in automatic transmission oil. then temper to from 350° to 400° for at least 45 minutes. I check temp with a pyrometer, Don't  trust any oven temp.  A lead thermometer is OK.  I temper the tail back to 600 wit ha small torch, Just turn the tail blue. I quenched one in water once and i cracked down the face.