caliber?

[horseman]

 Hello,  this winter I want to start on a rifle for target shooting only.  I'd like some help on a caliber...45 or .50.  100 yards will be the longest.  I like both, but thought that those that do this type  a lot would have some good advice.  Thank you for your help.    Bud.

[L. Akers]

I am assuming this will be an off-hand rifle?  Physics tell us that the heavier and faster the bullet is, the less it is affected by the wind.  Of the two caliber choices you present I would opt for the .45.  It will take less lead and powder than a .50, will produce less recoil and therefore may be able to be shot more accurately.  Personally, if most of your shooting will be done at ranges less than 100 yds, I would think seriously about a .40.  Less lead and powder than the .45 but plenty of oomph to carry the 100 yds.  At our club my son, who shoots a .40, usually wins the 100 yd matches (a lot of the others, too) and it is usually very windy.  Also consider, as you think about barrel size, a rifle that is too light is worse than one that is too heavy.  A rifle that is too light for the shooter doesn't have the inertia required to be held steady.

[hanshi]

I've done good 100 yard shooting (for me) in the past with the .40, .45 and .50.  If I had to choose, I'd be sorely tempted to get a .45 with a straight 42" barrel.  A 7/8" across the flats is great or, if you don't like the weight, a 13/16" barrel will work.  For targets, IMHO, a rifle with a solid, nose-heavy feel is required.  A .40 is also a good choice; but a .45 is the best all around caliber in my experience.

[Daryl]

As I prefer the heavier ball and powder charges, I would be inclined to go with a .50 cal. barrel.   The "C" weight swamped, Rice is a good one in 42", good weight for a competition offhand rifle, but would go with square rifling.

A straight 7/8" in .45 cal. at 42", is just on the edge of being a bit light, but is perfect for a .40.  I do prefer a larger ball, thus the following.

If going straight sided,  I would go for a 15/16" at 40"  or 42".

[trentOH]

Find a copy of May 2017 Muzzle Blasts. The Bevel Brothers reprinted an interview with Chuck Blender about shooting offhand. Very few people have ever been as good with a rifle as Chuck, and even fewer are as capable of speaking about what it takes to improve your scores. He's a master shooter, and a master teacher. May is about the only month I can't lay my hands on at this moment, but as I recall Chuck shifted from a 50 cal, to a 45, before deliberately choosing a 40 caliber, and a rifle that isn't so heavy that you can't hold it steady while shooting for several hours.

[stuart cee dub]

Over the years shooting off hand match ,I have gone from a 50 to a 45 and to a thence to a 40 .
While I like the 40 the holes are harder to see on the NMLRA standing bear target at 100 yds .
My next build is 45 caliber off hand rifle wherein I'm taking everything I learned so far and once again trying to make the ideal rifle .So I'm going back to the 45.
While I like the 40, a heavy straight barreled 45, I think ,is the ticket     

[zimmerstutzen]

many years ago, an excellent shooter from Virginia would come up to PA to compete.  He used a fat short 38 caliber barrel and often took home  most of the prize table.   I swear I remember him saying it was an old cut rifled 38 caliber center fire barrel blank that he built into a stubby full stock flintlock rifle.  Barrel was only about 26 inches and maybe an inch or an inch and an eighth across the flats. .He never used much powder, maybe 25 grains per shot. 

[Hungry Horse]

A very important thing to consider in a hundred yard target rifle is not only caliber, but also rate of twist. My recommendations would be a cut rifled barrel,preferable with  not much over twelve thousandths rifling depth. If Forsyth rifling is available, I would get it. The  Optimum twist rates for calibers that will get the job done at a hundred yards are .40 cal.=1in 48", .45 cal. =1in 56", and .50cal. = 1in 66". If you do your part with good quality barrel in these configurations, you will be hard to beat.

  Hungry Horse

[P.W.Berkuta]

The question here is "what kind of target shooting will you be doing" most of -- distances, range conditions ( steel clangers, windy, flat and open, woods walk, etc.), your physical build & stamina. A lot of target shooters prefer the .40 but for me I like a .45 caliber with a swamped 38" barrel that I can hold up and shoot off hand without muscle strain over the course of the match.  I can load up or down according to the conditions and I like the .45 caliber ball.

[Mike Brooks]

A very important thing to consider in a hundred yard target rifle is not only caliber, but also rate of twist. My recommendations would be a cut rifled barrel,preferable with  not much over twelve thousandths rifling depth. If Forsyth rifling is available, I would get it. The  Optimum twist rates for calibers that will get the job done at a hundred yards are .40 cal.=1in 48", .45 cal. =1in 56", and .50cal. = 1in 66". If you do your part with good quality barrel in these configurations, you will be hard to beat.

  Hungry Horse

I would have agreed with your twist rates until the past couple years. I'm finding more accuracy with faster twists. Of course only out to 100 yards, I don't care what happens past 100 yards with a ML. In fact 75 yards is pretty far for me.

[Bob Roller]

many years ago, an excellent shooter from Virginia would come up to PA to compete.  He used a fat short 38 caliber barrel and often took home  most of the prize table.   I swear I remember him saying it was an old cut rifled 38 caliber center fire barrel blank that he built into a stubby full stock flintlock rifle.  Barrel was only about 26 inches and maybe an inch or an inch and an eighth across the flats. .He never used much powder, maybe 25 grains per shot.

Load lightly,patch tightly and beware of the man who has but one gun. The gun you described
would have the felt recoil of a low velocity 22 short.

Bob Roller

[Hungry Horse]

Mike, I will say I was quite surprised a couple of years ago, when a young man came to a gun club meeting all excited about the muzzleloader he had just bought at a yard sale. I looked at it and saw immediately that the gun had shallow rifling, and a fast twist. I told the kid his gun was designed to shoot bullets, and sabots, and wasn't allowed at our muzzleloading matchs. He was crushed. So to make him feel a little better, I told him he might be able to shoot round balls out of it if he kept the powder charge small. He shot 35 grains of 2F in the little .50 cal. And came in second place. That fast twist shot really tight groups, as long as you swabbed the bore regularly enough to keep the fowlings out of the shallow rifleing.

  Hungry Horse

[Mike Brooks]

Mike, I will say I was quite surprised a couple of years ago, when a young man came to a gun club meeting all excited about the muzzleloader he had just bought at a yard sale. I looked at it and saw immediately that the gun had shallow rifling, and a fast twist. I told the kid his gun was designed to shoot bullets, and sabots, and wasn't allowed at our muzzleloading matchs. He was crushed. So to make him feel a little better, I told him he might be able to shoot round balls out of it if he kept the powder charge small. He shot 35 grains of 2F in the little .50 cal. And came in second place. That fast twist shot really tight groups, as long as you swabbed the bore regularly enough to keep the fowlings out of the shallow rifleing.

  Hungry Horse

Well, I'm beginning to think a 1-48 is about right for all calibers, at least in the Midwest and east. you westerners are much more likely to have to shoot past 100 yards so slower twist is probably a better option. Seems like most of the old KY rifles were rifled around 1-48. I think we've been reinventing the wheel the last 50 years or so.

[Hungry Horse]

Another fast twist anomaly that I can't prove is the difference equal size bullets have on game. I have seen 1in 48" twist rifles literally turn a deer upside down, while the same caliber in a slower twist just knocks them over. I suspect that the faster twist imparts more of its energy faster than the slower twist. I would suspect you would have fewer through, and through, shots as well.

  Hungry Horse

[Mike Brooks]

Another fast twist anomaly that I can't prove is the difference equal size bullets have on game. I have seen 1in 48" twist rifles literally turn a deer upside down, while the same caliber in a slower twist just knocks them over. I suspect that the faster twist imparts more of its energy faster than the slower twist. I would suspect you would have fewer through, and through, shots as well.

  Hungry Horse

Interesting. I suppose the fact that you would "normally" shoot less powder in a fast twist barrel and more in a slow twist for accuracy's sake has a lot to do with that phenomenon.

[satwel]

Have you considered .54? I have booth .45 and .50 caliber flintlocks and I find the .45 difficult to score with reliably at 100 yards. The best 100 yard score I've ever fired was with the .50.  I have to shoot the 100 yard events first thing in the morning -before the wind picks up - if I'm shooting the .45.
My .54 tolerates wind even better than the .50.

[hanshi]

My main .45 has a 1-56" but I'm not sure about the .50; they are more accurate than I can take advantage of.  My .54 is 1-66" and is an (to me) "eye popper".  My possibly most accurate .45 barrel has gain twist rifling.

[stuart cee dub]

''I have to shoot the 100 yard events first thing in the morning -before the wind picks up - if I'm shooting the .45.
My .54 tolerates wind even better than the .50.''
[/quote].

Yes I agree its best to shoot the 45 in the morning before the wind picks up .
Recoil is cumulative and  save the closer stuff for last. It's a good strategy.
 

[rfd]

Hello,  this winter I want to start on a rifle for target shooting only.  I'd like some help on a caliber...45 or .50.  100 yards will be the longest.  I like both, but thought that those that do this type  a lot would have some good advice.  Thank you for your help.    Bud.

caliber is a personal thing that will take personal experience to fully justify to yer satisfaction.  anything else is just words of others that are near, but not entirely, meaningless because without first hand experience you have no real world measuring device.  we all have our own pet prejudices, typically borne from a fair amount of experience .... usually a path taken that has fueled the classifieds. 

imho, rifle balance and recoil are prolly the upfront important considerations.  add to that yer shooting qualities and vision, or lack thereof of either.  the gun itself renders some importance as well, it's components and specifications of  dimensions and rifling twist and depth, but that can too quickly become nit picking where nit picking is a waste of time.  i know of one feller shooting some amazing scores with a .54 flint rifle, .570 patched ball and 30 grains of quality 3f.  i've read of a good shooter cleaning up matches to 100 yards with a .32 flint gun.  go figure.  ain't all this stuff fun?   

[Dphariss]

A very important thing to consider in a hundred yard target rifle is not only caliber, but also rate of twist. My recommendations would be a cut rifled barrel,preferable with  not much over twelve thousandths rifling depth. If Forsyth rifling is available, I would get it. The  Optimum twist rates for calibers that will get the job done at a hundred yards are .40 cal.=1in 48", .45 cal. =1in 56", and .50cal. = 1in 66". If you do your part with good quality barrel in these configurations, you will be hard to beat.

  Hungry Horse

I would have agreed with your twist rates until the past couple years. I'm finding more accuracy with faster twists. Of course only out to 100 yards, I don't care what happens past 100 yards with a ML. In fact 75 yards is pretty far for me.

I think the slow twist thing, slower than 48" for most calibers is the result of people not doing testing, the best shooting 50 cal I ever had (before the gain twist McLemore barrel) was a 48" twist Douglas "Hawken" barrel shot all the powder needed. I really don't care for the 70-72" everyone seems to think is needed for calibers over 45.
I have a GM 54 recut to 62 caliber 48" twist I may shoot before cutting it into 3 pistol barrels. To see how much powder it will shoot without "stripping" may put a scope on the action and test accuracy too. Once above 58-62 slower twists are OK. But see no really read for anything as slow as 72" unless really large in the bore. Though my 15 bore has an 80" and shoots fine.
Dan

[Dphariss]

I have never seen any difference in killing power based on rifling twist. Sometimes deer run off (sometimes long distances) the longest runs with a ML were about 200 yards or so. One MD doe with a 48" 50 and the other a WT Doe with a 66 twist 54)  sometimes they don't.  One would have to literally shoot hundreds of deer with different twists with the same balls size and velocity to get a valid idea and then I bet it would show no difference.

Dan