Longrifle with damascus barrel?

[Three Steps]

Has anybody ever heard of an American longrifle that was made with a twisted Damascus barrel? If so I'm sure it would have been an imported barrel.

[James Wilson Everett]

Guys,

Not an American longrifle, but a Germanic rifle with a twist iron barrel.

Jim

[smart dog]

HI,
Most barrels were imported but I am not aware of an original  long rifle with a damascus barrel.  There might be some presentation gun made, perhaps during the late flint or percussion era that had a twist or damascus barrel but none that I know about.

dave

[Three Steps]

This shows me that a twist rifle barrel was being made or used in Europe at that time period. I believe they had been made in Ottoman empire as early as 1500's or so. I'm sure there could have been some trade as well in barrels.

[DutchGramps]

While on a job in Yemen, some 30 years ago, I found several rifled, twist steel barrels as used on long guns for the Ottoman army. They were dated by local experts between 1800 and 1850, were of excellent quality, and two will be used on rifles I stiil plan to build 

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

English rifle 1840 - 50 circa.  Even the rib and rod pipes are damascus steel.

American barrels - those made here - were forge welded from flat bar stock around a mandrel.  But they lack the damascus pattern that these European barrels exhibit, as the material used was simple iron, and not a combination of iron and steel.  I have a Ketland fowling piece made similarly, and it has "Stubs Twister" stamped into the bottom flat at the breech.  You can see the weld joints, but not a damascus pattern...maybe covered with patina.

[smart dog]

Hi,
I am sure you can argue that damascus barrels were known for centuries and some could have been imported to the colonies in America.  Sure, but there are no examples of which I am aware. Let's get some terminology straight. Damascus steel is very ancient and the process infuses precious steel (which until the mid 19th century could not be made in mass quantities) and abundant iron together to create a stonger iron object with a very limited amount of steel.  Twist and stub twist barrels are all iron but some of the iron comes from horeshoe nails pounded on cobblestones and converted to a very pure and strong density.  The twist iron skelps are spiral welded like damascus barrels but they are all iron, no steel is infused.  Twist and Damascus are different processes.

dave 

[Mike Brooks]

In the book WEAPONS IN EARLY AMERICAN HISTORY there is a supposed colonial American made fowling gun with a Turkish made Damascus barrel. I'm not completely convinced the gun was made here and if it was, a Turkish barrel would definitely be the exception, not the norm. There were loads of barrels imported into the colonies, kind of surprising some Damascus made barrels didn't make it over here...must have been too expensive an item.

[Elnathan]

Just to clarify:

Damascus steel and damascus steel (note capitalization!) are two different process. The ancient Damascus steel was a method of producing true, homogenous steel (a form of crucible steel, if I recall rightly) that could be etched to produce a watered pattern, whereas "damascus" is layered of iron/steel(s) of different composition to produce an effect not unlike that of true Damascus steel, hence the name.
We are talking of the latter process.

[Mike Brooks]

The above barrel I'm referring to is layered iron and steel in a swirled pattern, not like the "Stub twist" you see on latter SXS shotguns.

[Three Steps]

While on a job in Yemen, some 30 years ago, I found several rifled, twist steel barrels as used on long guns for the Ottoman army. They were dated by local experts between 1800 and 1850, were of excellent quality, and two will be used on rifles I stiil plan to build 

I have a nice Ottoman rifled barrel too that I want to do something with. I'm thinking I would like to build a wheellock out of it. Might be more appropriate than on a long rifle by a long shot. It has a really nice twist still showing on the bottom with a heavy etch. A 50 cal. rifled bore still in shooting condition. A direct ancestor was in Plymouth in the early 1600's and would be fun to make something that he might have brought with him from England.

[Hungry Horse]

In the 1600's it was probably a matchlock, and much more dangerous as a club, than it was a firearm.

  Hungry Horse

[Seth Isaacson]

Just to clarify:

Damascus steel and damascus steel (note capitalization!) are two different process. The ancient Damascus steel was a method of producing true, homogenous steel (a form of crucible steel, if I recall rightly) that could be etched to produce a watered pattern, whereas "damascus" is layered of iron/steel(s) of different composition to produce an effect not unlike that of true Damascus steel, hence the name.
We are talking of the latter process.

Technically they are both capitalized since they denote the city of Damascus in Syria. "True Damascus" was made with "wootz" steel (I hope I'm spelling that right) which was imported from the Indian subcontinent and is a form of crucible steel as you mentioned. No one truly knows how to make original Damascus steel after the technique was lost sometime in the 18th century. As you noted, most of what we call Damascus steel when referring to gun barrels is actually laminated/pattern welded steel which has simply been called "Damascus" because of its resemblance to the former. It has been called "Damascus" officially by gunmakers for a long time though, and most people know what you mean when you talk about a Damascus barrel. There are all-sorts of sub varieties made with different patterns and materials.