Author Topic: lock tuning  (Read 5019 times)

Offline Joe S.

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lock tuning
« on: August 13, 2017, 12:08:21 AM »
Never did any lock work,still working on my first build.After looking things over I did the best I could polishing all metal to metal moving parts.Anything else tip wise to get the most out a this thing,Its a flintlock btw.

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: lock tuning
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2017, 12:15:26 AM »
Put it back together, oil it, put in a flint and see if it works. If it seems fast you're done. There is every little tuning to be done on today's locks. It one of the great things about "the good old days" being gone.
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Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Joe S.

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Re: lock tuning
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2017, 12:19:23 AM »
Thanks Mike,some of the metal surfaces looked a little rough in my opinion.Not cast rough just not as polished as I would like.

gunlock

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Re: lock tuning
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2017, 03:01:34 AM »
case harden lock plate then polish

Offline bob in the woods

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Re: lock tuning
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2017, 04:31:19 AM »
What brand and style of lock is it ?   Watch the engagement surfaces; contact points of the tumbler and sear.

Offline L. Akers

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Re: lock tuning
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2017, 05:24:48 AM »
Things I look at and "smith" with a new lock.  The very first thing I look at is the tumbler axle- full-cock notch/sear nose-pivot screw geometry to be sure its at 90 degrees.  If its not, I send the lock back, although I have corrected some.  Polish all contact surfaces as you did.  With the mainspring and hammer removed, look for lateral play of the tumbler between the bridle and lockplate.  If there is more than .005" play I carefully file the surface of the bridle that abuts the lockplate to get <.004" movement.  Careful here, the surfaces have to remain flat and parallel.  I look at the tumbler axle fit in its hole in the plate.  I don't want any discernible slop here.  If there is, I bore out the hole in the lockplate, press in a bronze/iron bearing and drill /ream it to fit the axle.  I look at the small tumbler axle and its fit in the hole in the bridle.  Again, I don't want discernible slop.  If there is, I will turn the axle down to about 1/8" diameter (or to the size of an appropriate number drill) and polish it, drill out the bridle hole to a suitable size, press in a solid piece of bearing bronze and using the hole in the lockplate as a guide drill/ream it to the size of the axle.  I look at the fit of the frizzen in its slot between the plate and pan-arm and shim to remove play.  I pay particular attention to the sear nose and the full-cock notch,  bringing those mating surfaces to mirror bright--don't change the angles!!  I usually work on the sear spring to reduce its force--they are ALL too heavy.
Is all this necessary for a functioning lock?  NO.  Like Mike said, put it together and see if it sparks.  But all the above will serve to improve lock-speed by reducing binding and friction and, for me, its worth doing.

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: lock tuning
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2017, 06:55:14 AM »
I've had splendid luck with commercial locks - have had to do very little to make them work well - until recently.
I bought an L & R flint lock for a project, but could not in good faith use it as issued.  the assembler had ground the end of the sear spring too short, and at a goofy angle, so that it took incredible force to trip the sear.  So I removed the spring, heated it red, and straightened it out flat.  Then I re-bent it to extend the lower limb, and thinned it considerably to give it a nice snappy action.  Of course, I re-hardened and tempered it.  The images show the spring before and after.
While I was at it, I made a new sear screw with a longer shank and shorter threads, so that the screw bottoms against the plate before it jams the sear between the bridle and the plate.  Now the screw is tightly bottomed, and the sear travels in its plane without drag.  These little improvements make all the difference in the action of the lock.  Also, the sear spring as issued laid almost flat against the sear interfering with its action.  With the reshaped spring there is lots of clearance.








I don't think they uploaded in the correct order, but you can see that I also filed the back of the sear to give the sear spring as far a reach toward the pivot screw as possible.  Happy to answer questions...


« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 06:58:55 AM by D. Taylor Sapergia »
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: lock tuning
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2017, 01:57:11 PM »
My above comments were about Chambers and RE Davis locks. I try to  avoid the L&R's as they take too much work to bring them up to what the Chambers and Davis locks are right out of the box....L&R's are sort of "kit" locks these days.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Joe S.

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Re: lock tuning
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2017, 02:47:58 PM »
It is a L&R lock.As I said I gave all the surfaces a nice polish.Everything seems to be flat and parallel to one another,no real slop.Lock functions like it supposed to.The lock would have probably been fine but I wanted to make sure it could be the best it could be.My next question would be,would you temper the springs?

Offline Dale Halterman

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Re: lock tuning
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2017, 04:30:04 PM »
In a discussion on this board several years ago, someone - I think it was Jim Chambers - suggested checking the fit of the sear to its pivot on the screw. If it is loose, the trigger will be very creepy. I have wrapped brass shim stock around the screws on two L&R locks to take up the slop, although I am sure a competent gunsmith would have drilled out the sear, bushed it, and re-bored.

Dale H

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: lock tuning
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2017, 06:27:55 PM »
I frequently make new screws with shanks that fit the holes better, on those that need to be a better fit...sear, frizzen, for example.  On L & R's Ashmore lock, the frizzen spring should be polished, re-hardened, and re-tempered.  They are prone to breaking, as they come out of the box too hard.  The mainsprings don't need it.
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Offline Joe S.

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Re: lock tuning
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2017, 07:13:38 PM »
The one thing I did notice that I did not like was around the sear where it engages the fly.As you pull the hammer back past full cock,just looked as though the sear wanted to jump/right over the fly instead of locking in at full cock.I worked the area/over carefully to make sure all the edges involved where crisp and now it looks better with the fly jumping in place if that makes any sense.Just looked like an oops waiting to happen.

Offline Darkhorse

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Re: lock tuning
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2017, 10:46:27 PM »
The first thing I do is check the inside surface of the lock  plate for straightness. If I see any light under a straightedge I either bend the plate or file and sand whichever is appropriate, until the plate is flat, close is not good enough for me, I want it flat. Then using finer grades of sandpaper I polish the lock plate until all scratches or marks are out.
Using a thick black majic marker I coat the entire surface of the plate then put it back together. Work the lock a few times. If there are any new marks made by the mainspring or other moving parts then take it apart and polish those out. Continue until you can cock and uncock without leaving any marks.
That will get you started and most of the friction out. There's more that can be done but this will do for now.
American horses of Arabian descent.

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: lock tuning
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2017, 11:11:21 PM »
It is a L&R lock.As I said I gave all the surfaces a nice polish.Everything seems to be flat and parallel to one another,no real slop.Lock functions like it supposed to.The lock would have probably been fine but I wanted to make sure it could be the best it could be.My next question would be,would you temper the springs?

If the lock sparks there is NO need to retemper the springs.
I used to get requests to "tune" these locks and turned them
all down.I had enough to do to get my own working right and
expect others to do the same.I have used L&R externals as a
"chassis" for installing a benchcrafted mechanism and that
worked out pretty well and also some of Chambers Late Ketland
externals.The Chambers Late Ketland is in my opinion,the best
production lock today.

Bob Roller

Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: lock tuning
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2017, 02:10:42 AM »
The function of locks and quality is a very subjective matter.  Some are much more particular than others.  With this said, the quality versus price for the better locks today is good. 

On high end custom guns, I've spend a day or two, modifying, tweaking and tuning. 


Offline Bob Roller

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Re: lock tuning
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2017, 03:14:03 PM »
The function of locks and quality is a very subjective matter.  Some are much more particular than others.  With this said, the quality versus price for the better locks today is good. 

On high end custom guns, I've spend a day or two, modifying, tweaking and tuning.

When I make a lock such as for a Hawken,I try to surpass anything available in St.Louis
in the 18 and whenevers,When I make them,I charge $150.Some say that I charge too much.
If these people can't afford it,there are others for less.Nobody that tries to do quality work in
any field of work should let anyone tell them what their time is worth and cater to them.
That is a market of another kind.

Bob Roller

Offline rich pierce

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Re: lock tuning
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2017, 05:19:24 PM »
 I spend 7 hours on average hand polishing and doing light tuning. Having one ready to go would be delightful. Still, the value to cost ratio of the locks we get is very high.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Joe S.

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Re: lock tuning
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2017, 09:38:20 PM »
Bet I have a good eight hours on it so far.Still not completely satisfied with my polish job on some parts as I get close to  fine finish grits I notice rough spots and keep at it.

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: lock tuning
« Reply #18 on: August 15, 2017, 02:10:31 AM »
I certainly couldn't make a living if I to spend 7 or 8 hours polishing lock internals.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Joe S.

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Re: lock tuning
« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2017, 02:22:55 AM »
That's including the plate,cock,frizzen ect.

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: lock tuning
« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2017, 03:14:19 PM »
I certainly couldn't make a living if I to spend 7 or 8 hours polishing lock internals.

I used to polish the flintlocks I made but then it dawned on me that
I wasn't getting paid for it so I don't polish any cast steel parts beyond
a caplock hammer. I try to make upgraded mechanisms for the few locks
I make and leave the external work to whoever wants to do it.

Bob Roller