54 cal patch recommendations

[Jim/WA]

I've got a new 54cal flinter with a 38" 1-56 twist Colerain barrel that I'm working up for elk hunting. I'm shooting PRB of course and I'd like to push the powder charge as much as is reasonable. Right now I'm shooting .530 balls and 110gr FF but my patches are blowing out. Big time. Accuracy seems decent out to 60yds but sucks at 90 yards. Could be the eyes but I'm going to start over with the load work up once I replace the brass sight with iron. Since I don't know what size patches these are, I need a good starting point. Any suggestions on a load combo for this barrel keeping in mind it's primarily an elk/mule deer rifle?

[smylee grouch]

Check to make sure your crown is smooth and the short starter isn't pinching the patch on one side when you load. Also do a patched round ball into the muzzle and pull it out to see if you get weave imprint for lands and grove.

[Marcruger]

Yep, check your crown.

That said, "The Minute Men" company makes some amazingly tough patching.  All I use now.  I have never burned one through nor torn one.  This is light years ahead of cheap precut ticking patches. 

They specialize in Teflon coated patching, but will also sell the cloth untreated.  I have tried both, and it shoots the same, and to the same point of aim as with Lehigh Valley lube.  It's the cloth, not the lube that is awesome. 

Incredible stuff.  I have tried a TON of different cloth in many thicknesses, and found none as good as this stuff.  The Minute Men cloth comes in various thicknesses, and I mainly use the .018 with a 5-under ball. 

Best wishes, and God Bless,  Marc

[hanshi]

Tight loads are less likely to burn through.  Also, an op wad of some kind helps, too.  After you make sure your crown is smoothed and the rifling lands are smooth, the next step is to make a good load.  I use .020" mattress ticking or .025" denim.  These require a little bit of effort when seating, especially the denim.  Tighter loads help keep the bore from fouling up and allows continued shooting without wiping the bore.

[Standing Bear]

Seat a ball and then pull it. If rifling cuts BEFORE firing lap or otherwise smooth the barrel and crown.

[Jim/WA]

I went ahead and seated a drilled out ball all the way to the breach then removed it. I believe the patches are 0.018 and they measure 1 3/8" across. These are the common Ox-Yoke prelubed pillow ticking patches that TOTW sells. I'm puzzled. Seems like this combo shouldn't be blowing up patches the way it is.

[Don Steele]

That's a nice, uniform pattern of Cuts in your patch. 
I believe the barrel crown is too sharp. I've had that issue with a new barrel myself. I resolved it with a piece of 4/0 steel wool and my thumb.
Just hold the steel wool under your thumb and rub it around inside the crown of the barrel...smoothing those sharp edges. Doesn't take a lot of pressure. Try to uniformly smooth the entire radius.
One of our members posted some pictures of this operation a while back, perhaps he will see this thread and chime in.

That first patch pic. you posted looks totally "blown". That's generally an indication of weak material vs. powder charge. I used a lot of material that worked fine in my 40 cal. rifle with powder charges from 30-45 gns. 3f Goex. When I increased that to 65 or so for shooting 100 yd. That same material started blowing apart...looked just like your first picture.
That can be material that's just too thin, or...if you're using pre-lubed patches, they are too old. That's one of the problems with buying prelubed patches...you can't tell how old they are. I have had my own home-made prelubed patches do it, so it's not just the commercial products. Some patch lubes eventually attack and weaken the material itself over time.
Work on that crown first...it's the cheapest, easiest possible fix.

[okawbow]

I have'nt had any luck with pillow ticking for patches. It always seems to cut andfray too much. Denim always works for me. The pillow ticking will be blown to shreds and the same thickness denim could be used over again.
Just be sure it is good quality all cotton denim.

[moleeyes36]

Daryl has posted descriptions and pictures of how he uses his thumb and emery cloth to smooth the sharp edges on the ends of the lands on his guns.  The results are impressive and it's a simple process.  I've tried it and found it to work very well for me.  If Daryl sees this thread he might point you to one of his posts describing the "magic thumb" process.

Mole Eyes

[Marcruger]

Daryl's method does indeed work! A smooth rounded crown loads easy and doesn't cut.
Something I noticed in the patch photo - you can see lines through it. Good patching will be much denser with more threads per inch.
Hold your patching up to the sun. If you can see any light through it, it isn't dense enough. That's my opinion.
Hope this helps.  Best wishes and God Bless, Marc

[hanshi]

Denim is certainly a good, dense material for patches.  I've never experienced a burned or cut denim patch.  Even the mattress ticking, thicker than pillow ticking, does very well in my rifles.  Smoothing the rifle crown makes a significant difference in loading and patch integrity. 

If you posted photos of your fired patches, I couldn't see them.

[TommyG]

Jim, I agree with the guys about both the prelube patches and the barrel crown.  I too did a couple of my Rice barrels the Daryl method.  Only I used this flexible sanding sheet from 3M in 320g with a drop of Tap Magic or cutting oil for lube.  I found this stuff at Lowes.  Works great for this kind of work. Doesn't crack or split, conforms to the shape.  I do a quarter of the crown diameter at a time - 25 strokes - quarter turn barrel - 25 strokes-quarter turn barrel, etc.  to keep things even.  Works really nice.  And like the guys mentioned earlier, stay away from prelubed patches. 
Best of luck.  TomG


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[Jim/WA]

I just looked at the crown on my 45cal that I've been shooting for the past 20yrs -- also a Colerain barrel. The crown on this new 54cal is definitely sharper though I believe the patches are old and deteriorated. Looks like I've got a combination of fixable problems. I can't seem to find the mentioned method for crown smoothing. Any one have a link?

[Jerry V Lape]

Smmpoth the crown, ditch the thin patching and go to at least 0.20 denim with a good lube.  If you are still getting blown patches put some green scotchbrite material in a slotted ramrod tip and with a little oil for lube do about 25 strokes (round trips) change the scotchbrite when it get loose while stroking.  Don Getz told me this when I was having patch issues on my first rifle.  Now patches are solid.  The scotchbrite won't hurt the bore and it does take the sharp edges off the rifling. 

I would add it seems you are using a pretty hefty powder charge.  I also shoot a .54 with a 38inch barrel and find that between 80 and 90 grains of FFg is best accuracy range and more than enough for elk.  Mine has a slightly slower twist so you might want to drop back to about 70gr and work up your load while you test out the results of smoothing out the crown and rifling.  Takes a couple hundred shots to get things broken in anyway. 

[Dphariss]

Much of the pillow ticking, if not all, is VERY weak now, coming from communist China. Will not pass a tear test and certainly would not work for its original use. Switch to Linen or denim or something like drill.
Try tearing the blue stripe ticking down the stripe. Some of it is little better than a paper towel and will split when the ball is seated 
I have some good blue stripe but its !@*%&@ hard to find.


Dan

[Dphariss]

Also try some FFF powder, about 90 gr. Might help. But I bet its weak material. 110 of FF will act as a wad to some extent during initial acceleration of the ball. So the patch is likely failing farther down the bore.
You can get linen online if you search and they will send out swatches so you can see if it works. The heaviest they make is about right in my GM barrels. If you have really deep grooves that is another issue. I would NEVER sandpaper a barrel. Fine scotch bright maybe. I use a wad of 0000 steel wool over a patch for a tight fit with some oil but I doubt this is your problem. I think its the material.

Dan

[thecapgunkid]

Although there is a lot of good advice here, before you start dinking around with the barrel and enter into something you might not be able to reverse, work the ball/patch/load after putting the gun out of sight out of mind for at least a week.

Start fresh because you may be thinking too much.  I ran into that when I posted about a smoothbore I couldn't get to group.  Nobody answered my question but I have used most of the advice across the boards  in all of my guns

For my money, that's a lot of powder but I don't like to give advice like that because I am  not all that knowledgeable beyond my own provincial view... 

I have not the slightest idea why my best groups in my guns seem to be a smaller ball with at least an .025 denim and a load just over the caliber size.  They group well up to a hundred yards ( that's as far as I go) and are sufficient for the trail walks I do.

Not sure if there's a patron saint of flintlocks.

Capgun

[Daryl]

I went ahead and seated a drilled out ball all the way to the breach then removed it. I believe the patches are 0.018 and they measure 1 3/8" across. These are the common Ox-Yoke prelubed pillow ticking patches that TOTW sells. I'm puzzled. Seems like this combo shouldn't be blowing up patches the way it is.

I measure Track's OxYoke .018" lubed and dry pre-cut patches at .015". They are of no use- for me.  They do not appear to  be holding up for you either.

This 'thin' patch shows cutting on the lands, just as was mentioned by Don, Dan and Jerry.  You also need to smooth the muzzle's crown.  If it is cutting that thin stuff, it won't get much better with the thicker patching that you need.

Try to find 10 ounce denim- so far, I have not found a bad lot of it.

It is easier with a lathe, but this works just fine. Be sure to turn the barrel 45 to 90 degrees every 10 to 20 'twists' of the cloth or paper. I use 320 grit normally. A 600 to polish, then emery cloth for a mirror finish.


This one is just 320 grit finished.  Using wet/dry paper, it wears out and does a good job of polishing as well.


Although this is a smoothbore, the method and desired results are the same.




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[bob in the woods]

I agree with Daryl and the others, but thought it worth mentioning that I generally find many lots of pre-lubed patches to be inferior in strength. I believe that the lube degrades the material over time.

[Old Ford2]

I agree with Daryl and the others, but thought it worth mentioning that I generally find many lots of pre-lubed patches to be inferior in strength. I believe that the lube degrades the material over time.

Bob in the Woods got that right.
Nice fresh .015 denim will put you in the winning circle.
Also to give you better barrel lube and patch protection, if you cut 9/16 felt wads with a hole punch, then soak the round felt wads in a hot melted solution of 70/30 bees wax and olive oil you will get target grade groups and performance, especially with the hot loads that you are shooting.
Trust me it works!
When you check your fired patches, you will think you could use them again.
Fred