Author Topic: Worlds best Builder..."words cannot describe"  (Read 3431 times)

Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: Worlds best Builder..."words cannot describe"
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2017, 09:02:31 PM »
  Well I'm a little confused. After reading some of the posts. Was under the impression it was for sale at over 30 grand.
  Ok maybe I miss read it. Otherwise I would have bid on it. Even had the bosses blessing.
  Soooo enlighten me. What was the final winning bid?
  Tried looking on the sight but no such luck.  Great rifle though.  Oldtravler

Oldtravler,
It did not sell, it didn't reach his reserve price. We have no idea what the reserve price was, you have to keep bidding until you reach his reserve price. I fell sure the reserve was far above what I would have been willing to bid!

I think someone mentioned that it had been for sale elsewhere for the 30K price you mention.
Dennis
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Offline oldtravler61

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Re: Worlds best Builder..."words cannot describe"
« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2017, 01:29:31 AM »
  Dennis I am not a huge fan of auctions. But I would think that if there is a reserve price you should be able to see it.
  For no other reason than to let bidders know upfront what the real minimum is.
  When attending the CLA show one of the items sold went for far less than what one of the member's here offered.
  Maybe they didn't follow the right protocol to enter there bid I don't know.
  I just know that a few of us were surprised. After it was all said an done.
  But thanks Dennis for your info. Much appreciated.   Oldtravler

Offline crawdad

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Re: Worlds best Builder..."words cannot describe"
« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2017, 04:28:50 AM »
You don't go to Gunbroker to sell a rifle like that. The seller needs to rethink his strategy and head for a more upscale auction site.

Offline EC121

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Re: Worlds best Builder..."words cannot describe"
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2017, 05:33:49 AM »
Some auctions don't have a reserve but they starting bid.  To me that is the same as a reserve, but you can see it.  That is a nice rifle, but as Crawdad says it isn't for the Gunbroker bargain hunting crowd.

Offline heinz

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Re: Worlds best Builder..."words cannot describe"
« Reply #29 on: September 06, 2017, 03:15:51 PM »
I hesitate to jump in on this thread BUT as the CLA Auction chair I am always interested in auction comments.
This year we had 8 absentee bids and all items went way over the absentee offers. If anyone thinks they lost out on something I would be glad to hear. There is an auction comments thread posted here with no replies
kind regards, heinz

Offline t.caster

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Re: Worlds best Builder..."words cannot describe"
« Reply #30 on: September 08, 2017, 01:10:59 AM »
Judd's work is flat out amazing, and even if it's over the top for some folks...it is so much fun to look at!
The seller also said, if not THE BEST "then one of the top few". I certainly wouldn't argue with that.

Tom C.
"virtually unknown builder"
Tom C.

Offline crawdad

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Re: Worlds best Builder..."words cannot describe"
« Reply #31 on: September 08, 2017, 04:18:44 AM »
I'm trying to decide which work of art from the 'Golden Age' I like better the recently pictured Wallace Gusler rifle from Williamsburg or this Jud Brennan.

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=44611.0


Offline oldtravler61

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Re: Worlds best Builder..."words cannot describe"
« Reply #32 on: September 08, 2017, 04:47:26 AM »
  Then we have that Mark Silver's fella an that a he had at the CLA show. Then there's Dennis Preddy another Michigan builder an his fabulous wire inlay work on his guns.
  Jud was a Michigan boy but he split to the far North.
  Would like a rifle or smoothie from anyone of them.  But my piggy bank needs to go on steroids first.
    Oldtravler

Offline n stephenson

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Re: Worlds best Builder..."words cannot describe"
« Reply #33 on: September 08, 2017, 03:57:13 PM »
I guess I`m a weirdo , but I`d rather have 30 one thousand dollar guns , than one 30 thousand dollar gun. Just more fun to me. I do think Jud`s work is "UNREAL BEAUTIFUL"  I am just more of a utility kind of guy. That`s why I don`t wear jewelry , I`d rather spend the money on guns. I`m not a show car kind of guy , I prefer a nice  "driver"  JMHO Nate

Offline crawdad

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Re: Worlds best Builder..."words cannot describe"
« Reply #34 on: September 08, 2017, 07:16:52 PM »
To me that is a family heirloom that should be handed down from generation to generation with a hand crafted hunting bag and a scrimshawed horn. Whether its used or not or simply displayed over a mantle or fireplace the decision to have one of these rifles built should never include the resale price.

Offline Eddie Southgate

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Re: Worlds best Builder..."words cannot describe"
« Reply #35 on: October 09, 2017, 07:09:48 PM »
I guess I`m a weirdo , but I`d rather have 30 one thousand dollar guns , than one 30 thousand dollar gun. Just more fun to me. I do think Jud`s work is "UNREAL BEAUTIFUL"  I am just more of a utility kind of guy. That`s why I don`t wear jewelry , I`d rather spend the money on guns. I`m not a show car kind of guy , I prefer a nice  "driver"  JMHO Nate

   Nate ,
   You sound like a man with good sense rather than a weirdo . I am the exact opposite . I own any number of guns that range from things I like to those I really like but what I really want and one day intend to have is one I just cant put down . The gun I really love . Probably wont be anywhere near as fancy as this one but I do appreciate the craftsmanship that went into birthing this rifle . I would shoot it if I owned it , it's too nice not to be used .

   Eddie
Grumpy Old Man With A gun ,,,,, Do Not Touch !

Offline vanu

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Re: Worlds best Builder..."words cannot describe"
« Reply #36 on: November 14, 2017, 04:55:17 AM »
Sold last week for 20,700.00.

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Worlds best Builder..."words cannot describe"
« Reply #37 on: November 14, 2017, 04:27:37 PM »
Sold last week for 20,700.00.

That sort of thing is only for those with a big income and a willingness to spend it.
I also prefer 20 rifles at $1000 each.Show cars that are seldom or never driven
and hauled on or in trailers turn me off.I'm glad we have the good quality utility
muzzle loaders and cars that can be driven and enjoyed as well as shown.

Bob Roller


Online jerrywh

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Re: Worlds best Builder..."words cannot describe"
« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2017, 10:41:08 PM »
 Jud Brennan is a master craftsman no doubt about it. He has his own style and my greatest respect.
 As I have stated in the past I do not believe there is a worlds best gun maker for more than one reason. First off it is a matter of opinion. The second reason is there is a certain amount of people in this world who are about as good as you can get.  On any given day one may produce a product better than the other as far a quality is concerned. That is the reality.  Long rifles usually do not bring a lot of money no matter how good they are. When I say a lot of money I mean over about $15,000.00 or $20,000.00. Judson's gun will sell for a fair amount if it hasn't already. $35,000 may be what it is worth as far a labor and artistic value is concerned but it is a long rifle and that limits it's value to a certain extent. If it was a Jeager it could bring double that amount. Just something I learned the hard way.  I don't think this gun is for sale by Judson. It is for sale by a previous buyer. Therefore it has been sold before by judson
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 10:46:54 PM by jerrywh »
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Offline Martin S.

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Re: Worlds best Builder..."words cannot describe"
« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2017, 01:47:59 AM »
Why are Jeager's worth double?

I seriously don't know, which is why I am asking.

Is there a larger preference for that style?

Online jerrywh

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Re: Worlds best Builder..."words cannot describe"
« Reply #40 on: November 15, 2017, 06:19:23 AM »
 Decorating a American long rifle to extreme goes against tradition too much. Most collectors of American long rifles don't think that extreme decoration is tasteful. They think a lot like Mike Brooks.  The most I ever heard of a American long rifle selling for was $40,000.00 and that may have been untrue.  I know for a fact that more than one European muzzle loading gun sold for over $100,000.00
 And a couple of others were appraised at $150,000.00 to $200,000.00.  No American Long rifle would ever bring that  sort of money no matter who built it. 
Nobody is always correct, Not even me.

Offline The Rambling Historian

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Re: Worlds best Builder..."words cannot describe"
« Reply #41 on: November 15, 2017, 08:44:44 PM »
I'd speculate you might be wrong with that last statement. A long rifle by a well-respected maker, in high condition compared to most, with a direct connection to some historical event or figure might reach into the $100,000 plus range like some of the high end European arms. Look at the Atchison Hawken that just sold for $109,250. That certainly shows over $100,000 is possible with the right rifle and history. Atchison himself isn't even a well-known or highly influential figure.

All that said, the most expensive long rifle I've seen personally was $40,000 as the price including the buyer's premium.
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. -John Adams during the trial of British soldiers for the Boston Massacre.

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Worlds best Builder..."words cannot describe"
« Reply #42 on: November 15, 2017, 09:36:32 PM »
I suspect that Jud did not get $20,000 for his rifle, but I may be wrong.  And I think this phenomenon is common...the artist is poorly paid while the speculators rake it in.  I know that several of my own rifles have brought double what I charged my initial client, when sold and resold, and I'm a clutz of a maker compared to Jud Brennan.
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Online jerrywh

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Re: Worlds best Builder..."words cannot describe"
« Reply #43 on: November 15, 2017, 11:37:55 PM »
 The  Atchison Hawken is not a contemporary rifle. It is an original with historic value. It cannot be compared to what we are talking about. You would have to compare it to Boutet's or High art European presentation firearms. Something like Napoleon's pistols etc. 
    In the case of the  Atchison Hawken the buyer paid for the historic value not the artistic value.  For the most part most contemporary collectors pay for the artistic value.
   There are gun builders and there are gun decorators and there are both.  I don't know anybody who can build a gun better than Taylor and a few others on this forum like Davec2. 
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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Worlds best Builder..."words cannot describe"
« Reply #44 on: November 15, 2017, 11:54:56 PM »
I know of one Brennan gun that brought 55K and a Gusler that came in about the same. Both went to the same client, both were very ornate KY styled rifles.

You must also keep separate contemporary and antique guns, apples and oranges.
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Offline Don Stith

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Re: Worlds best Builder..."words cannot describe"
« Reply #45 on: November 16, 2017, 02:00:41 AM »
 If allowed to ignore the possible sale value;
 I would rather have my Mike Brooks, Allan Martin and Houston Harrison builds
  Hiding a rifle behind excessive glitz has never been popular with me

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Worlds best Builder..."words cannot describe"
« Reply #46 on: November 16, 2017, 08:39:17 AM »
I think that is why Hawken rifles have such a warm spot in your heart, Don.
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Worlds best Builder..."words cannot describe"
« Reply #47 on: November 16, 2017, 04:14:19 PM »
If allowed to ignore the possible sale value;
 I would rather have my Mike Brooks, Allan Martin and Houston Harrison builds
  Hiding a rifle behind excessive glitz has never been popular with me
I have always felt the same way. I enjoy highly decorated guns but they don't have the soul that a well constructed plainer "hunting" gun with good architecture  has.
 I have noticed that in the past few years there are a couple relatively new builders here that can pull off highly decorated KY rifles  that have warmth and a soul. It ain't the old days anymore, there are some people out there with incredible artistic talent these days.
www.fowlingguns.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline The Rambling Historian

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Re: Worlds best Builder..."words cannot describe"
« Reply #48 on: November 16, 2017, 07:51:36 PM »
The  Atchison Hawken is not a contemporary rifle. It is an original with historic value. It cannot be compared to what we are talking about. You would have to compare it to Boutet's or High art European presentation firearms. Something like Napoleon's pistols etc. 
    In the case of the  Atchison Hawken the buyer paid for the historic value not the artistic value.  For the most part most contemporary collectors pay for the artistic value.
   There are gun builders and there are gun decorators and there are both.  I don't know anybody who can build a gun better than Taylor and a few others on this forum like Davec2.

Gotcha. I thought you were speaking of all American long rifles when you said:

No American Long rifle would ever bring that  sort of money no matter who built it. 
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. -John Adams during the trial of British soldiers for the Boston Massacre.

Offline hanshi

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Re: Worlds best Builder..."words cannot describe"
« Reply #49 on: November 16, 2017, 09:21:27 PM »
I guess I`m a weirdo , but I`d rather have 30 one thousand dollar guns , than one 30 thousand dollar gun. Just more fun to me. I do think Jud`s work is "UNREAL BEAUTIFUL"  I am just more of a utility kind of guy. That`s why I don`t wear jewelry , I`d rather spend the money on guns. I`m not a show car kind of guy , I prefer a nice  "driver"  JMHO Nate


You and me, both!

And as Mike said, a good "using" gun does often have that "soul".
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.