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Author Topic: An over/under rifle.....  (Read 2686 times)

Ed Wenger

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An over/under rifle.....
« on: September 08, 2017, 02:14:02 AM »

Last year at Dixon's (2016), I came across Randy Grunkemeyer at the Rice barrels tent, where he was displaying a really nice .36 over/under rifle.  I first mistook the piece for a swivel breach.  I thought the rifle was one of the coolest things I'd ever seen!  I've never bought a flintlock gun from anyone, but after talking with Randy, and handling the piece, I just had to have one.  I asked Randy to build me one in .45 cal, and if he could, keep it in the white so I could do some scratchin' and checkering.  Randy agreed, and this past year at Dixon's, had the rifle ready for me.

Sooo, this is the over/under with my touches on it.  The rifle has 35" Rice barrels in 45 cal.  They are straight tapered, measuring 13/16" at the breach, tapering to 11/16" at the muzzle.  The locks are L&R which have been reworked, primarily to put the mainsprings on the outside of the plate.  The right lock has a direct vent hole into the breach, the left lock has a vent that angles down into the breach.  All the machining work is way above my pay grade...  I haven't weighed the rifle but would guess it's in the 10lb. range.  It's got some heft to it, but it's not crazy heavy, and handles/points very well.  I haven't shot it yet, put hope to shortly.  Anyway..., here's some photos.  Randy did a really nice job with this rifle, and I'm very pleased with how it turned out.  I'd be happy to try and answer any questions...

Ed










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Pennsylvania Dutchman

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Re: An over/under rifle.....
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2017, 02:55:06 AM »

That is very nice! Beautiful work by both of you.
Mark
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oldtravler61

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Re: An over/under rifle.....
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2017, 04:37:41 AM »

  The gun is unique. Your  work an Randys is very well executed. Thanks for showing. Oldtravler
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smart dog

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Re: An over/under rifle.....
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2017, 01:19:01 PM »

Nice Ed!!
I remember seeing it at Dixon's.  Your engraving is fabulous.

dave
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Bob Roller

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Re: An over/under rifle.....
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2017, 01:38:54 PM »

There was some guy at Friendship a couple of years ago claiming to have invented
that peculiar lock system with the external mainsprings.I found a "Man at Arms" magazine
that had one that was about 200 years old. I sent it to Randy.Helmut Mohr told me I
should start making them and I was and still am not interested.
I hope to see Randy in a few hours as well as Helmut Mohr.

Bob Roller
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Ed Wenger

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Re: An over/under rifle.....
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2017, 01:56:57 PM »

Bob..., tell Randy I said "hello".  The external mainsprings are certainly not a new development.  I've seen English pistols from the 1780's with this set up, I don't believe rifles were as prevalent.

Ed
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Tim Crosby

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Re: An over/under rifle.....
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2017, 02:00:49 PM »

 Liked  it before but Love it now, Nice work Ed. I was pretty impressed with Randy's work he had at Lexington. Be sure and let us know how it shoots.

  Tim
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BOB HILL

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Re: An over/under rifle.....
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2017, 02:14:46 PM »

Beautiful work. Thanks for sharing.     Bob
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Bob Hill

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Re: An over/under rifle.....
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2017, 03:48:51 PM »

Ed, It is always a treat to see your work!! Nice Job!  One of the Weapons of the American Revolution books I have , I can`t remember which one, has a picture of an original pair of  German , double barrel pistol , that have  the external springs like this. On the pistols ,the bottom of the cocks were cut like a tumbler and the spring rode right on it , no stirrup. Cool Design.       Nate
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Mike Brooks

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Re: An over/under rifle.....
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2017, 04:23:39 PM »

Nice. I'd have liked a longer buttplate finial butt that's just me, more area for your engraving. I've seen a lot of English work with locks like that.  I saw a Paris made gun at an auction that was more than a 100 years earlier in style with the same lock mechanism as well. Langedouc was the maker if I remember correctly.

(somebody has been studying Schippers engraving style ;))
« Last Edit: September 08, 2017, 05:13:01 PM by Mike Brooks »
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WadePatton

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Re: An over/under rifle.....
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2017, 04:42:21 PM »

There's no "offside" to that rifle.  Great bunch of work. 

Is the comb indeed neutral for full ambidexterity?
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Ken Prather

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Re: An over/under rifle.....
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2017, 05:22:09 PM »

very neat work. thanks for sharing it.
K
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Maalsral

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Re: An over/under rifle.....
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2017, 06:18:14 PM »

That is super nice work Ed, and a neat gun.  Wish I had one!
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Mark Thomas

Ed Wenger

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Re: An over/under rifle.....
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2017, 07:02:12 PM »

Nate..., yep, most of the pieces I've seen were done as you described, with a notch in the cock and no stirrup.

Mike..., that's interesting about the date on the Paris gun.  Shouldn't be surprising though, France (Paris) was pretty much the benchmark of Continental work.  And yes, I did stray a bit on the engraving style with this one....

Wade..., I hadn't thought about that aspect, but yes, I would say the stock is neutral.


      Ed
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D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: An over/under rifle.....
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2017, 07:47:19 PM »

Such a departure from the norm we see here, and a welcome distraction too!  Nice work by you both.  I'll be interested to hear the shooting report, especially how well regulated the barrels are, with just one set of sights.
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PPatch

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Re: An over/under rifle.....
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2017, 07:56:10 PM »

An absolutely beautiful rifle(s), very nice execution in every way Ed.

dave
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Joe S.

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Re: An over/under rifle.....
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2017, 08:06:09 PM »

Before seeing it I wasn't sure about what I would think.Cool rifle,your engraving really ads to the piece,nicely done.I too am interested for a range report.
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Arcturus

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Re: An over/under rifle.....
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2017, 10:07:15 PM »

Beautiful work.  Very unique and neat piece, and your "scratchin'" makes it even nicer.  I'm still not quite sure how the flame gets down into the bottom barrel?  Like others, I look forward to a report on how it shoots. 
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Jerry

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Re: An over/under rifle.....
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2017, 01:13:43 AM »

Nice.
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ScottH

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Re: An over/under rifle.....
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2017, 04:34:55 AM »

Exceptional!
Are there two ramrod in case one breaks? Or just for balance?
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Marcruger

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Re: An over/under rifle.....
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2017, 04:42:57 AM »

It looks great finished Ed.  Have you shot it yet?  Be sure and flush that flash channel well so it doesn't corrode up on you.  Where is that pesky black bear when you need him......?   ;-)   Marc
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acorn20

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Re: An over/under rifle.....
« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2017, 09:40:49 PM »

Gorgeous rifle here, Ed.  Very unique!  Randy's fit/finish is executed superbly.  Your engraving is top-shelf and if you performed the checkering, it looks great as well.  I'm jealous!

Dan
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Ed Wenger

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Re: An over/under rifle.....
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2017, 04:05:30 AM »

Thanks, all..., still haven't shot it, been too busy in the shop...

Scott..., I guess there's two ram rods for balance & spare.  Most over/under pistols I've seen have one ram rod.  I like the idea of two, and am glad Randy does them that way.


            Ed
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bama

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Re: An over/under rifle.....
« Reply #23 on: September 14, 2017, 08:01:45 PM »

Randy attended the Alabama Kentucky Rifle show last year and I got to look at his rifles there. He definitely is a talented builder and machinist and I hope that he is able to attend this show in January of 2018.
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Jim Parker

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