barrel bottom fouling removal?

[Turtle]

 My new rice .50 with square bottom rifling builds a big fouling ridge near the bottom that is difficult to remove when cleaning. None of my other guns were nearly this bad. Any ideas to ease removing this?
                             Thanks, Turtle

[ScottH]

What are you using for cleaning now that is not performing?

[EC121]

Go to Muzzleloaders Building Supplies and get a breech plug brush.  Plug the touchhole with a round toothpick and put some cleaner in the barrel and let it sit for a bit.  Then spin the brush on a rod and clean the breech face.  You can also put a patch on the brush.  I have a dedicated wooden rod for that.

[bones92]

You mean, it builds up in the bottom of the grooves, right?

Seems a bore brush will solve this.   Try a nylon brush (a bit stiffer and less likely to get stuck at the bottom).

[ScottH]

I sometimes spray a couple shots of this in the bore before cleaning it with plain cool water. It seems to cut through crude pretty well and rinses out clean.

Moose Milk recipe
8 oz. of 91% Isopropyl Alcohol
4 oz. Castor Oil
4 oz. Witch Hazel
16 oz. Distilled water – or non-chlorinated water
1 oz. Murphy’s Oil Soap

Mix the alcohol and castor oil together, then add the witch hazel and shake to mix.
Then add the water. Finally add the Murphy’s oil soap and shake to mix.

This can be used in a sprayer bottle for patch lube and for a bore solvent in a pinch.

[Daryl]

I use 2 layers of flannelette cloth on a properly sized jag for cleaning all of my BP guns, including the ctg. guns.  Never had a problem removing BP fouling with them and plain cool tap water. No soaps, no brushes, no additives - water and flannelette. With the breech in the bucket, water drawn into the bore, pumped out- about 10 or 15 strokes, the bore is clean.
Dry with more flannelette, oil - done.

[little joe]

40 cal rifle with touch hole plugged with a tooth pick with warm water till full and let it soak for 30 min. to a couple hrs and it came very clean  as I ran a patch down the bore at the same time I removed  the pick, and shot water several feet then followed by several dry patches. Good, no it was not as I was building a cookie on the face of the breech plug untill it would not go of as I  did not have a 40 cal scraper, I soon got one, scraped the plug and problem solved.

[Turtle]

 It is not fouling on the breechplug, it's a ridge app 1/2 inch above there- where the patched ball stops when loading. It's difficult to force a solvent soaked patch past  the ring and then it sticks needing plyers to pull out. Eventually it dissolves, but it's a pain. I have tried water and Lehigh Valley solvent soaks. If my breech plug scraper was bore size I think that would mechanically remove it. As I said, none of my other guns do this nearly to this extent. The gun shoots, loads and goes off well.

[Hungry Horse]

What are you using for patch lube. It sounds like heat from the ignited charge is bonding something to the barrel.

  Hungry Horse

[hanshi]

Make sure you patches are thick enough to hold enough lube and compress well into the grooves.  One of my rifles developes this problem regardless of what steps I take.  My solution was just prior to going home, I would run a wet patch (water is fine) and let it sit there for 3-4 minutes.  It then came out entirely.  I ran a couple of dry patches to remove the dampness then packed up.  Back at home I did my normal thorough cleaning.

[rich pierce]

I'm with you Hanshi. A couple wet patches after shooting does a world of good.

[Marcruger]

My Rice flatbottom .50 does the same thing.   In my experience some days are worse than others, which I attribute to heat and humidity variations. 

I wipe between shots.  When I feel that "ring" starting to form, I simply run a wetter patch before the dry one.  I used to use a damp patch, then dry, but have gone to a wet patch in the summer. 

In my rifle the lube doesn't seem to make much difference.  It still gets that ring of hard, dried crud after 4 or 5 shots.  I am using Goex 2f. 

If soaked, or wet patched, the ring comes right out. 

When I clean at the range, I scrape the breechface first with the scraper.  Sometimes nothing comes out, but it just takes a second.  Then I'll plug the vent and pour plain water (or with a little Simple Green added) in the bore and let it sit a few minutes.  I dump that out, run a few patches, and then flush it out again.  Again, some days are better than others. 

Best wishes and God Bless,   Marc

[Fyrstyk]

I use a alcohol dampened patch after my third round to remove the crud buildup in the breech area.  The alcohol evaporates quickly, so I don't have to worry about contaminating the powder for my next round.

[hanshi]

Another thing I discovered for when you get home and it needs a little more work; I put a wet cleaning patch down on the breech face.  Then, using a scraper attached to the cleaning rod, I turn the scraper as if I were simply scraping the breech face.  This gets down into the corners and hidey-holes.  Dry patches come next and finally an oil dampened patch.

The problematic rifle, in this case, is my favorite deer rifle.  It's a .45 X 36" X 13/16" and is a flintlock.  The barrel has a defect about 2/3 the way down from the muzzle.  I've used ScotchBrite pads and fine steel wool that have smoothed the bore.  But the defect - you can't see it - is still readily apparent when a patch is pushed down.  A shame since the rifle is ultra reliable, light and handy, very nice stock and very, very accurate. 

Now, it doesn't always form a crud ring - weather may be a factor - but does a majority of the time.  I've thought about eventually having the barrel recut and re-rifled with a .460" bore.  This would enable the use of .454" pistol ball, of which I have plenty.  Just not sure of the cost OR advisability of the process.  And whether or not the crud ring problem will still exist, I'll know it's not a function of the bore's condition. 

Forgive the drift of my post; but I don't like having to deal with even occasional crud rings.

[Turtle]

I don't wipe between shots and don't want to as I shoot mostly woods walks. I am going to try using an undersized jag and wet patch first so it doesn't stick  and leave it down the bore for a while before cleaning. I may also get a .54 cal scraper and turn it down to just .50cal size.
  Thanks for the suggestions.

[bob in the woods]

Perhaps a thicker patch is required in that barrel ?

[Nate McKenzie]

Have you tried cleaning with linen tow?  Its much more efficient and easier.
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=24312.0

[little joe]

I did not see what granulation powder you are using. In southern Indiana we use a lot of 3f due to our humidity  as it does not dirty up as bad.

[Turtle]

 3f. It's amazing that this same powder, patch lube, and load doesn't do this nearly as bad in my other flinters. Kind of like the same pipe tobacco tasting different in different pipes.

[bob in the woods]

If the same load doesn't do it in your other barrels, the rifling depth of this barrel may be the reason, which is why I suggested trying a different thickness of patch in this barrel.

[WKevinD]

I had a friend that short started a ball, about 1 1/2" from the breech, in a new barrel and it left a light swell that you could just barely feel when loading but it let enough gas escape to build up a stubborn carbon ring. He was lucky he didn't do more damage.
Kevin

[thecapgunkid]

There's another thread where I wind-bagged my praises of one of those tube and clamp jobs that clamps to the barrel at the touch hole and draws water through its hose  from a coffee can so that I don't run my first patch into the breech fouling when cleaning at my shop.  It's made of tubing and a brass fitting for over the touch hole.

On the trail, I find that running a couple of wet  patches after every fourth or fifth shot and going easy at the breech is necessary just for this problem of breech fouling.

I betcha this issue is an argument for smoothbores...

[Turtle]

 Bob--, Thanks for the idea, but I don't understand how a thicker patch would help this ring below where the ball seats? Could you explain please? I am using a .018 patch and it loads pretty hard.

[bob in the woods]

I just wonder why this barrel and not the others. There is a reason.  The Rice web site lists a 12 thou. depth for the flat bottom grooves, I thought that there was a chance you were getting blow by which caused the carbon ring, however , your patch is obviously thick enough. Perhaps it's even too thick ...resulting in the lube you are using being compressed out of the patch in the barrel contact area ?  I'd try a different patch thickness . You could also try increasing the powder charge by 5 grains or so, which would move the ball contact area forward. If that works......it's the barrel .

[thecapgunkid]

Bob's advice is something you ought to look after, because a lot of our load selection is a touchy feely thing.

Hershel House, in his DVD , mentions that these guns are prone to fouling down in the load area of the breech.  Logic would seem to dictate that the area behind the ball is not getting any lube

Like I posted earlier, the only way I have been able to clear that  fouling is with wet patches around the fifth shot or so.  Every gun I have ever had has fouled like this, and I go gingerly to soak and get past that waist of fouling. Li'l bit at a time until I hit the breechplug and bah-dah-bing the bore is ready to go.

What I didn't know when I started doing this was it also made the gun easier to clean at home.

Don't shoot yore eye out, kid

The Capgun Kid