Think I lost my mind

[davec2]

Bill,

The lock is a Brown Bess and no, I didn't have any trouble mating up the lock and the 4 gage barrel.  I am building another one now as a commission that has a 4 gage steel barrel and I'm using a Chambers Round Faced English lock.  Another one I built is a slightly smaller gage but also uses the Chambers lock:

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=38909.0

[Bill Raby]

   I am glad to hear that a Brown Bess lock fit fine. I have been concerned with the main spring hitting the side of the barrel and causing problems with the fit. Fixing that would be quite a lot of work. Have you had any trouble caused by the recoil? I had the stock break on 458 Lott fired offhand. It took a good chunk of my thumb with it.  A 4 bore potentially has a whole lot more recoil than that. Would be nice to avoid that happening again! Would it be a good idea to put a couple steel rods through the wrist of the stock? This is a bit outside of anything that I have built so far. I would appreciate any advise that you may have.

[Mike Brooks]

Proper grain structure through the wrist is very important. The ivory hunters in Africa wrapped rawhide around the wrist on their olyphant guns.

[Daryl]

   I am glad to hear that a Brown Bess lock fit fine. I have been concerned with the main spring hitting the side of the barrel and causing problems with the fit. Fixing that would be quite a lot of work. Have you had any trouble caused by the recoil? I had the stock break on 458 Lott fired offhand. It took a good chunk of my thumb with it.  A 4 bore potentially has a whole lot more recoil than that. Would be nice to avoid that happening again! Would it be a good idea to put a couple steel rods through the wrist of the stock? This is a bit outside of anything that I have built so far. I would appreciate any advise that you may have.

Potentially, if loaded to 12 drams ('bout 326gr.) only, will have just about 4 TIMES the recoil of that .45 cal. gun you mentioned.

[Scota4570]

12 Drams of 1F is totally doable.  The thing is to keep the acceleration slow so it is a push instead of a sharp jab.   Even a "Cannon" grain size of powder would probably be a good idea.  If you try 12 drams of 3F it will thump you. 

The last time I shot it was at a gathering of big bores.  We even had a couple of Lahti 20mm's.  Those scare me.  About 10 guys shot my 4-bore and only one was surprised.  Nobody was bothered by it and most wanted a second shot. The load was 350 grains of 1F and a .990" ball.  I even hit a metal silhouette at 50 yards, it really rung it!

[bob in the woods]

My recommendation of the Bess lock , and the usage of 1 F powder comes from my experience with my swivel gun. With a charge of 350 gr of 2F + wadding + qty 36 .350 balls and card wad, I just can't imagine firing this from my shoulder.    The 1 F charge was a lot easier on the swivel mount, so that is what I settled on.  I never did purchase a ball mould for it, just carving one from a maple block instead.  Doesn't get much use anyway . It is really interesting to see what a smooth 4 bore will do with a load of shot.
If it was legal, it would be absolute murder on ducks !

[Daryl]

12 Drams of 1F is totally doable.  The thing is to keep the acceleration slow so it is a push instead of a sharp jab.   Even a "Cannon" grain size of powder would probably be a good idea.  If you try 12 drams of 3F it will thump you. 

The last time I shot it was at a gathering of big bores.  We even had a couple of Lahti 20mm's.  Those scare me.  About 10 guys shot my 4-bore and only one was surprised.  Nobody was bothered by it and most wanted a second shot. The load was 350 grains of 1F and a .990" ball.  I even hit a metal silhouette at 50 yards, it really rung it!

Maybe- the guys around here, who have shot my 14 bore with 165gr. 2F, will not shoot it again. Those who have watched me shoot it with 6 drams and a lightweight 480gr. ball, refuse to engage in this much fun!

I have shot a 12 bore SXSwith the smallish 480gr. ball, wads and loaded with 7 drams - (190gr. 2F). The 8 pound gun spun me around like a weathercock. I was not expecting that, but could shoot no more of those until I repaired and cross pinned the stock. It broke through the wrist.

I am past all that pain now and refuse to shoot guns loaded like that any more.  Oh, the 14 bore is still OK, but not from the bench, that is starting to hurt.

I would likely not shoot a 4 bore with anything over about 4 drams and that would be a mere pistol load for it.

[davec2]

Bill,

This is a repeat from an old post of mine.  If you feel the need to beef up the wrist, I think this is easier and just as effective as the steel rods:

Back in May (when I last had time to work on this rifle), Cailber45 mentioned the grain direction through the wrist as a potential problem.  Every time I looked at the unfinished rifle as I passed by the bench, the grain run out started to bother me.  So rather than wait until the wrist broke one day and then try to fix it, I thought I would be pro-active and fix it before it broke.

I routed out a deep groove 3/8 inch wide and 1.25 inches tall through the entire wrist area excavating the existing inletting for the trigger, trigger plate, and rear of the trigger guard.



I then cut a straight grain splint out of a scrap of the same stock blank and cut some narrow grooves in it to allow me to squeeze the epoxy out around the splint and get it fully seated in its groove.



One last full check fit before the epoxy was mixed.



Splint epoxied in place....



After a day of curing, the trigger, trigger plate and rear of the trigger guard were re-inletted back where they came from.



If the stock breaks at the wrist after this, I'll make a new stock.

[Bill Raby]

davec2 - I can see how that would add a good amount of strength. But do you think that it would help if the grain of the stock already goes the right direction? What I was thinking to do was to drill a long hole through the wrist on either side of the tang bolt and epoxy 1/4 or 3/8 inch steel rods in there. Seems like it would be pretty easy.

[Bill Raby]

Hotdiggitydawg!! A big bang old time elephant gun.There was a movie years ago
that was titled "A Boy 10 Feet Tall". This boy walked from Northern Africa to South Africa
and met an elephant hunter portrayed by Edward G.Robinson who had such a gun.
When he got to his aunt's home,the first thing he wanted was an old fashioned elephant
gun.He described it as one where the shooter drank a quart of whisky down below the label
before firing it.Sounds like one in the making here to me.
Bob Roller

Bob Roller is COOL!!!!!

[yulzari]

There is some sound building advice above amongst the Omigawd! comments.

 Looking at the issues practically; I have to presume that elephants and rhino are not your intended recipients so the recoil can be ameliorated by stock shape, a wide butt, sheer mass in the gun and barrel, moderate loads, as coarse a powder as may do the job and a lighter ball. Steel and brass balls can be purchased but they carry a ricochet hazard. Possibly one can cast them in zinc. Jeff Tanner used to do hollow ball moulds until recently (http://www.jt-bullet-moulds.co.uk/moulds.html) and he may be able to advise on how one can do the task even if he no longer does so himself. Those in the cannon world may well have advice to offer on making a lightweight ball. Essentially you would be making a small bore shoulder fired cannon.

Bonne chance!

[Hungry Horse]

 These guns are usually found with a pristeen bore, and a rough stock, from their many owners shooting them once, and dropping them. Then of course selling them to someone else that has lost his mind.

  Hungry Horse

[Bob Roller]

I have TWO minds. One is missing and the other is out looking for it.

Bob Roller

[Hungry Horse]

Hey, Bob, me too, wanna buy an elephant gun? It’s only been shot one, and dropped once. Only kidding.

  Hungry Horse

[SingleMalt]

I think The Rifle Shope has castings for a wall gun lock,

I think the correct statement is "I think the Rifle Shope shows castings foe a wall gun lock"

You are, of course, right. I’ve been trying to contact them for almost a week to purchase their #510 lock for the Pistor Jaeger Rifle. No luck so far. 

[Mike Brooks]

I think The Rifle Shope has castings for a wall gun lock,

I think the correct statement is "I think the Rifle Shope shows castings foe a wall gun lock"

You are, of course, right. I’ve been trying to contact them for almost a week to purchase their #510 lock for the Pistor Jaeger Rifle. No luck so far. 

Only a week? You haven't even made a mild attempt yet.

[SingleMalt]

I think The Rifle Shope has castings for a wall gun lock,

I think the correct statement is "I think the Rifle Shope shows castings foe a wall gun lock"

You are, of course, right. I’ve been trying to contact them for almost a week to purchase their #510 lock for the Pistor Jaeger Rifle. No luck so far. 

Only a week? You haven't even made a mild attempt yet.

Probably so. I guess I’ll have to get Marine Raiders to rappel out of helicopters and surround their building to get their attention.