What the heck is it?

[LarDog]

Looking to identify this long gun.  Any help?

[lostinthewoods]

New England militia rifle? Converted from flint to percussion?

[Ky-Flinter]

I don't believe that lock was ever flint.  I can't make out the writing on the lock.  Are there any markings on the barrel, top or bottom, or the muzzle?  Is it a half-stock or a full-stock?  Do you have a picture of the cheek side butt stock?

-Ron

[Don Stith]

LOck markings say London Warrented
  That style percussion lock was used everywhere from New England to St Louis and many places in between.  The silver mounted Hawken for sale in Julias auction has a similar lock.  Of course that rifle is not a plains rifle with the Maryland buttplate and Ohio guard
I think the patchbox and trigger guard on your rifle put it in New England
 

[smylee grouch]

Welcome to the forum. Has the trigger guard been repaired? It might be just the image but it almost looked like the grip rail has been soldered on to the trigger bow or am I seeing some thing that isn't there?

[LarDog]

Sorry for the crummy pictures. A little shakey today.
There don't appear to be any repairs to the trigger guard, and no soldering. Just my inept photography.
I've never removed the lock plate, but could I guess.  It does read "London Warranted".
It's a half-stock, octagon to round barrel, with fixed sights, and a single (and never repaired, as far as I can see) trigger.
Thanks for the feedback. I've spent HOURS trying to come up with info, to no avail. You guys are a great help!

[LarDog]

I'll try to shoot some better pics, including an overall, and get them up in the a.m.

[Shreckmeister]

 I'm pretty sure that Patchbox finial is in the patch boxes book. I've seen it somewhere. I've not seen a lock plate like that one before. Another vote for New England

[LarDog]

I'd been focusing on the trigger guard. Haven't seen another like it. But then, I haven't really known where to look.
Just added a few more pics.

[LarDog]

Am looking for "the Patchbox book"... any help?

[Dennis Glazener]

I have vol II but will not have access to it until Sat
Dennis

[LarDog]

Been looking for info for a long long time. I can wait.  THANKS.

[ptk1126]

I skimmed thru the patch box books but saw nothing close to this.
Obviously the circular section of the finial suggests New England,
such as Silas Allen, but the upper section doesn't resemble any of
his that I have seen.

All the best
Paul

[LarDog]

Looking at the patch box finial, I'm (for the first time) seeing a "thistle" motif, leading me to think it might be of Scottish origin or influence. And the trigger guard looks pretty European. No?  Searching....

[Gaeckle]

That lock looks a lot like an English bar lock, with the bar and lock being a single unit. Take a look at L&R's lock selection and look at the 'shotgun' style lock. The 'bar' would be a single piece of steel that was fastened to the barrel that may have been intended to prevent errosion of the forward part of the stock or for ease of instalation and stock shaping for the forward part of the lock panel. I think that L&R used to sell both the lock and the bar as seperate items, I have seen them at the Log Cabin Shop in the past.

As for the triggerguard, I am not to sure if it was used in Ohio or other areas of the midwest. I don't recall seeing them illustrated in the publications put out by the  Association of Ohio Longrifle Collectors, but I may be wrong. The sideplate is a common shape, but in my opinion the overall feel that I get is New England, Maine, Massachusets or there abouts.

[LarDog]

Thanks Gaeckle. Interesting stuff. Found the locks you referenced. Looked but I don't see a bar installed on this gun.

I've been poking around, looking for similar components, etc., trying to come up with anything to place/date this gun for way over 20 years.  Had a lot of guys offer opinions, but have never come up with anything solid.  The "search" has become my hobby, I guess.

Anyway, it's always a pleasure hearing from knowledgeable enthusiasts. I really appreciate your input.

[Mike Brooks]

Looks like a New England gun to me. It's a little odd but not completely out of line for that area. you'll never find another like it.

[Bill Paton]

Nobody has commented that the forward lock panel doesn’t fit the bar lock. Could you show the inside of the lock mortise? I think it will indicate that this is a replacement lock, opening more speculation as to what the original lock was.

Bill Paton

[LarDog]

(My ignorance on full display here)  The lock plate needs to be removed to view that?

[Bill Paton]

Yes, LarDog. Carefully remove the single lock screw from the left side of the side plate, remove the lock plate, and examine the lock mortise (inlet) to try to determine if the old lock shape can be deduced, or to see if the enlarged parts of the mortise (done to fit the bigger bar lock) look newer than the rest of the mortise.

Bill Paton

[LarDog]

Would that be the "cheek" side of the gun, or the left side of the plate when looking at the hammer? Also, would I need to cock the hammer when removing the lock?
Found your post, 101026-1, and was happy to see a trigger guard with characteristics similar to my gun in question. Any relationship there?

[lostinthewoods]

Nobody has commented that the forward lock panel doesn’t fit the bar lock. Could you show the inside of the lock mortise? I think it will indicate that this is a replacement lock, opening more speculation as to what the original lock was.

Bill Paton

I got New England, might be a converted from flint lock. Could I be right? A converted New England militia musket?? LOL 

[LarDog]

UTubing to find out how to disassemble without screwing things up. Will post a photo when I can.

[Gaeckle]

Nobody has commented that the forward lock panel doesn’t fit the bar lock. Could you show the inside of the lock mortise? I think it will indicate that this is a replacement lock, opening more speculation as to what the original lock was.

Bill Paton

Good eye, Bill. I agree with your observation, that lock could very well be a replacement.

[Don Stith]

You are trying o make a chore out of a simple action

  Unscrew the bolt holding the lock in
  Pull the hammer to half cock,if it has one.  if not take it to full cock.  Lift the lock out of the stock by holding on to the hammer

 Take a picture of the hole where the lock had been

If it does not almost fall out, Put the screw back in but only a thread or two.  Tap the head of screw lightly with a mallet to loosen the lock from the stock
  The hammer should be at half cock at this time too.  You have to free the hammer from the nipple