Author Topic: How Much is too Much Powder  (Read 5867 times)

Offline Eddie Southgate

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Re: How Much is too Much Powder
« Reply #50 on: November 13, 2017, 03:28:14 AM »
I think it was Norman Brockway from Vermont back in the 18&whenevers that shot over snow
to determine when to stop loading too much powder. Now that real black powder is around $30
or more a pound it pays to take a close look.The Medina Hawken has a flask with it the throws a
maximum of 85 grains for a 58 caliber gun. The flask has an adjustable spout.The old measure was
to lay a ball in the palm of your hand and pour powder over it until it was JUST covered.That works fine
and my own grandfather 1873-1972 used it and told me about it..

Bob Roller

   My pap told me for target shooting use 1 grain per caliber + 5  , add about 10-15 grains for deer . I have tried the cover the ball method and best I remember it works out about the same .

  Eddie
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Offline Daryl

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Re: How Much is too Much Powder
« Reply #51 on: November 13, 2017, 12:12:25 PM »
I use what the gun tells me to use.  That means I use what the gun shoots best with.  If you use really thin patches that burn or blow out with anything but light charges, it will shoot best with 1gr.

to bore size, or a tiny bit more. If you use a combination that actually seal the powder gases behind the patched ball with heavy loads, you will find your gun is a LOT more accurate than ever

before and you need more powder than what some of the old tales tell you to use.

If you never shoot past 50yards, fine - use whatever you want. We have targets at rendezvous, out to 200yards and beyond.  Locally, much closer, only out to 109yards.  Shooting accurately at

 those ranges (especially 200+), requires more than the 78gr. .58 deer load mentioned above.  That can actually depend on the rate of twist in the rifling.  75gr. 2F with a decent ball and patch load (.575" ball &

 .022" patch, in my Enfield) produced 1,308fps.  That load actually shot well in the 48" twist Enfield Musketoon and made a 3", 5 shot group at 100 meters for me and would do just fine for deer,

likely to that 100 meter range.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 10:30:32 PM by Daryl »
Daryl

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Offline OldMtnMan

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Re: How Much is too Much Powder
« Reply #52 on: November 13, 2017, 11:46:53 PM »
Who in their right mind would shoot a deer at 200yds with open sights? The front bead/blade would be bigger than the whole deer. How do you aim for the kill zone?

Let's not mix up target shooting with hunting.

I've shot coyote at 500yds with a .243, but will still try and get as close as possible for big game with a ML. It's way more fun and challenging. Lot's of guys can shoot. Not everybody can get close. You can even get close on open ground if you try hard enough.
Pete

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Offline Daryl

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Re: How Much is too Much Powder
« Reply #53 on: November 14, 2017, 09:13:56 PM »
Quote
"If you never shoot past 50yards, fine - use whatever you want. We have targets at rendezvous, out to 200yards and beyond.  Locally, much closer, only out to 109yards.  Shooting accurately at

 those ranges (especially 200+), requires more than the 78gr. .58 deer load mentioned above. "



Did you not read the text - or did you just see 200yards and fly off your handle? No one has said anything about shooting deer at 200yards with open sights.

You are the only one who said anything about shooting animals at 200yards. BTW - the front sight is not larger than a deer at 200yards - well, mine aren't, just saying.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline OldMtnMan

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Re: How Much is too Much Powder
« Reply #54 on: November 14, 2017, 09:21:47 PM »
Yes, I read it and it could be taken as if you want your deer load to shoot past 50yds you need to use more than 78gr. You even give 200yds as an example of one of the longer yardages.

It's never good to mix up target loads with deer loads. I can always be taken the wrong way.

Not sure what you have for sights, but the average hunting rifle front sight will cover a deer at 200yds. A Hawken for sure. If you use some target sights it won't be what most hunters use. Hunting sights should be bigger to pick up fast in hunting situations.
Pete

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Offline hanshi

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Re: How Much is too Much Powder
« Reply #55 on: November 14, 2017, 11:08:58 PM »
The past weekend in WV there were huge pastures all around.  A large buck with a doe was spotted in a field.  I could only see them when they moved; like watching a period at the end of a sentence move.  A range finder put them at 455 yards.  I wouldn't attempt that with a powerful gun/scope combo.  But it did provide an education as to critters at extreme range.  I could only see them as "deer" when using the powerful binocular we had.  I always thought of 100 yards a "long range" for deer and prb.
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

Offline OldMtnMan

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Re: How Much is too Much Powder
« Reply #56 on: November 15, 2017, 12:47:12 AM »
Me too.
Pete

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Online smylee grouch

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Re: How Much is too Much Powder
« Reply #57 on: November 15, 2017, 02:02:24 AM »
What is "long range" to some might not be to others. I would think all the variables of making  the shot would have a lot to do with the definition. Caliber, optimum load combo, shooter skill, local and it's current conditions (wind,light,etc.) and I'm sure others. I have several rifles that are capable of making 200 yd. shots if the shooter is up to the task. I'm not. But I would not pass on a 125+ yd. standing shot on a deer if I had a rest and the light was agreeable. 15 years ago it would have been 150 yd.

Offline OldMtnMan

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Re: How Much is too Much Powder
« Reply #58 on: November 15, 2017, 04:24:50 AM »
You wouldn't even consider it with my vision.
Pete

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Offline hanshi

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Re: How Much is too Much Powder
« Reply #59 on: November 15, 2017, 10:15:00 PM »
I've made a couple of deer kills at around 100 yards (+ or -).  I know many of you are quite capable of making kills quite a bit farther; not so sure I can.  I'll take a 100 yd shot - maybe a tad farther - under excellent conditions with a rested rifle.  I much prefer them under 50.
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

Offline Old Ford2

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Re: How Much is too Much Powder
« Reply #60 on: November 22, 2017, 12:03:52 AM »
I've heard for so many years about covering the ball in your hand with powder. Has anybody tried this and checked to see how much powder that is by volume?
Now that is where I went wrong, I thought they said cover your hand with the powder.
Now I know that I might be over loadin' a bit. :o
Fred
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Let the Lord pick the good from the bad!

Offline OldMtnMan

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Re: How Much is too Much Powder
« Reply #61 on: November 22, 2017, 01:28:16 AM »
 ;D
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Offline Daryl

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Re: How Much is too Much Powder
« Reply #62 on: November 22, 2017, 08:23:34 PM »
This one is 'in range'.(quite literally)


Daryl

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Offline hanshi

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Re: How Much is too Much Powder
« Reply #63 on: November 22, 2017, 10:48:10 PM »

[/quote]
Now that is where I went wrong, I thought they said cover your hand with the powder.
Now I know that I might be over loadin' a bit. :o
Fred
[/quote]


 :o HUH??   ;)
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

Offline ddoyle

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Re: How Much is too Much Powder
« Reply #64 on: November 22, 2017, 11:03:20 PM »
I like shooting over fresh snow at spruce trees- alot of data.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 11:22:34 PM by ddoyle »

Offline Daryl

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Re: How Much is too Much Powder
« Reply #65 on: November 22, 2017, 11:28:12 PM »
I watched a shot taken (I was about 300yards from them at that time, gutting another moose) of a client and his guide shooting at a moose, 170 yard shot by laser range finder.

The rifle was a .54 TC - had a cut rifled barrel seems to me, & was loaded with a .018" pre-lubed Oxyoke patch + a swaged Speer or Hornady .535" ball. The powder was a phony one, RS Pyro--x of 100gr. stricken measure.

 Had I been his guide, I would not have let him shoot as I witnessed his shooting in camp, wherein he barely kept 3 shots on an 10" x 14" target at 100yards from a bench.

If starting at 1,800fps (wild guess)I figured the ball's vel. at 170yards at about 850fps with an energy of approximately 360 foot pounds. The moose took off like a horse out of a starting gate and dropped dead after covering 40 yards- mere seconds after receiving the hit.

The ball went through a rib on the impact side, through the left lung, centered the heart, holed the right lung and stopped against the hide on the far side.

There was a 1/2"hole through those vitals. I was as surprised as anyone else.

Forsyth noted he'd penned both shoulders of a Sambar Sag at 250yards, with his 14 bore sxs rifle, a single shot.  He was prone to using hardened lead, usually with tin or mercury & 4 to 4 1/2 drams of #6 powder.

I will also note here, that his .54 barrel died before a year was up - totally rotted out by the pyro powder's acidic fouling.  He then had Taylor build him a .54, .40 interchangeable barrel rifle, then a .32, also in English design.  He destroyed all 3 of those barrels with that powder, as he insisted upon using it.

He did not believe Taylor nor I about it being harmful, until he later contacted Mike Nesbit, I think it was, who also told him it was death to his barrels to use it & it would indeed, eat a hole right out the side of the barrel, once it started the cancer.

Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline rich pierce

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Re: How Much is too Much Powder
« Reply #66 on: November 22, 2017, 11:53:45 PM »
Thatís pretty funny that he trusted Mike Besbitt over Taylor. Expensive lesson learned!
St. Louis, Missouri

Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: How Much is too Much Powder
« Reply #67 on: November 23, 2017, 05:16:01 AM »
There was an article in this week's hometown paper where an 18 year old girl went out hunting late in the day. It was still ML only season, she was in a tree stand and saw a large black bear by a tree. She took the shot and knew she hit it but the bear ran. She was afraid to look for it and went home for help. They found the dead bear about 40 yards from where he was when she shot it. The next day they took a range finder and measured the shot at 150 yards! They estimated the weight at excess of 350 lbs. No mention of what type of ML  she was using.
Dennis
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Offline Pukka Bundook

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Re: How Much is too Much Powder
« Reply #68 on: November 23, 2017, 06:26:55 AM »
Dennis,

Wonder if it was that 12-bore from the other thread!?!