Author Topic: A Bit different!  (Read 14348 times)

Offline Pukka Bundook

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A Bit different!
« on: November 11, 2017, 05:10:29 AM »
Well Gents, this was my latest build, last winter.
Original is a Tusco -Emilian snap Matchlock, built around 1525, in Northern Italy. 
A very fascinating arm it is too, used by the  Landsknecht in all probability.
I hope you enjoy the trip, as I took photos along the way and is meant to be entertaining.
I got a lot out of this build.
The original belonged to a good pal in Bavaria, some of you maybe knew him, Michael Tromner. (The Matchlock man)
Sadly, Michael passed away before his time. I really wanted to attempt a copy (or loose copy!!) of a few of his arms whilst he was still alive.
Anyway, here is the build of a gun Michael was as "Proud as $#*!" of.
Also very sadly, this piece was up at auction recently , so no longer in the Tromner Collection.

Here is a link to Michael's original thread;

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7542&highlight=Matchlock

(I thought you may need that thread, or you'd think I had maybe screwed up big -time on this one.)
I think the original gun is Fantastic!......wanted to build one a bit like it for years, for target and hunting.

Here is beginning of build.
Hydraulic drawn tube for the barrel, slimmed down in the waist and getting ready for tapers both ends. 
This pipe was a bit hard, so sat atop the wood-stove in the shop for  a year or two  to anneal a bit.   Didn't need that long but was waiting for me.
Hard, but my "draw-knife" (Converted reaper file) would shave off the excess metal when creating the barrel flats.   Shavings came off as in the photo.
Then barrel after draw-filing and with priming pan attaches, then rear tube sight and such.
No power tools used that I can think of, except drilling holes in the barrel loop and tang....After the initial slimming on the lathe that is!  :-)
Last pictures are the beginning of the lock and the stock.
The bore is about 14 mm, so ideal for the gun it is a 'copy' of.  Tube was a bit smaller OD, but had to do.

More soon.
























« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 09:23:55 PM by Ky-Flinter »

Offline SingleMalt

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Re: A Bit different!
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2017, 05:21:27 AM »
That's some work on the barrel. Wow!
Never drink whisky that isn't old enough to vote.

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Offline Pukka Bundook

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Re: A Bit different!
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2017, 05:36:48 AM »
More photos chaps,
My shop.
They say tidiness is the sign of a sick mind!
Various interests hanging on the walls... all half done..............
Stock roughed out.
I had to try and measure it on the computer screen, looking at the original photos, to get a feel of it. Very perplexing trying to get it to look right when all so odd really.
It is not a shoulder stock, neither is it a cheek stock. Fits best just touching the chest lightly in region of collar bone.
Bit painstaking getting the overall looks sorted.
The shavings of  wood on the floor are the bits that didn't look like a gun -stock.
























« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 09:43:40 PM by Ky-Flinter »

Offline Pukka Bundook

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Re: A Bit different!
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2017, 05:54:53 AM »
Round three;

Serpent roughed out.  BTW, the barrel has a rounded muzzle you may note. This was quite  popular in the 1520's and '30's and was out of fashion by about 1540.  I like that feature!   :-)
Also of note is the short stubby barrel, (about 24") again popular in this period. (Candle-sticks, furniture,  everything was short and blocky at that time.)
Making and fitting the guts in that lock -plate took some doing!  The original plate is only 5/8" wide at the most.  Did it in the end, after a lot of meddling.
On the cocked picture, you can see the toe of the scear sticking through the lock -plate and holding the serpent cocked.
Wood coming along.
Can anyone ID the wood? Heavy it is and very dense. Lovely stuff to work with.
As the original shows a few ntool marks, I left it with  the draw-knife marks showing a little.  Used a scraper but not much sanding. Went silky smooth with no wiskering.
I enjoyed making that wee underside butt -trap.  :-)  This might sound bad, but I Like this little gun! LOL!  (Vain beggar eh?)




















« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 09:46:30 PM by Ky-Flinter »

Offline Pukka Bundook

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Re: A Bit different!
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2017, 06:16:58 AM »
Last round I think;
Trigger-guard screwed on, as I hated to nail it on like original in case I needed it off again.
Trigger took a bit of sorting, as I'd never made a lock with a horizontal scear before. Works nice though.
Small acorns on lock and trigger, as per original.  I Did consider fluting that barrel, like original, but backed down!  :-)

No ramrod pipes, just wood holding rammer in place. Ticklish drilling the rammer hole with no forestock as a guide.
Wood stained  with Aquafortis and nothing else.  I like the colour.  :-)
First target shot, offhand at only25 metres.  The balls had glued themselves into a loading block, been there maybe 15 years or more!..Didn't help I don't think. 
A patch went through the hole on left with the ball.
Accessories.  You may notice the Yorkshire witch-post crosses on them , and the gun breech. Only found in Yorkshire, apparently.   Same as me at one time.
Goat priming horn has ivory teeth.  :-)

Very sorry this wound out this long. a few more to follow then I'm done.

Richard.






















« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 10:03:18 PM by Ky-Flinter »

Offline Curtis

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Re: A Bit different!
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2017, 06:19:00 AM »
Now that's WAY cool!!!!!  Great workmanship as well!

Curtis
« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 06:20:01 AM by Curtis »
Curtis Allinson
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Sometimes, late at night when I am alone in the inner sanctum of my workshop and no one else can see, I sand things using only my fingers for backing

Offline Pukka Bundook

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Re: A Bit different!
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2017, 06:32:22 AM »
Overtime.

Last ones and then I'll not haunt you anymore.

That's it. all done.

I enjoyed every  minute of it.

Oh, At present there are 2 store-bought wood screws in him. They're the only bits that aren't home-made. They'll be replaced when I get at it.

Also!...I found out that the original name for these is "Svamples Lit" in Swedish,.....................Mushroom lock! I tried him with tree fungus and he still goes like lightning.  Faster than a flint.   (Heading for cover! LOL)
Seeing as they were called "Mushroom lock", I can now see one with mushrooms inlays of stag-horn!   No use, I just Have to build that one!  It Has to be done.  :-)

Richard.

















« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 10:08:01 PM by Ky-Flinter »

Offline Rolf

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Re: A Bit different!
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2017, 12:25:31 PM »
Fasinating build! I really enjoyed the barrel work. Thank you for posting.

Best regards
Rolf

Offline smart dog

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Re: A Bit different!
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2017, 02:25:20 PM »
Very nice Richard!!  I love those early barrels and I enjoy seeing all the variations of stock architecture during the 15th-17th centuries.  The link is wonderful.  How did you attach the pan?  We had Bolek, who is a Polish master of wheellocks and matchlocks, show us a method in which the pan is dovetailed into the barrel.

dave
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline wattlebuster

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Re: A Bit different!
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2017, 03:31:07 PM »
Cool thread ;D
Nothing beats the feel of a handmade southern iron mounted flintlock on a cold frosty morning

Offline Joe S.

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Re: A Bit different!
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2017, 03:58:44 PM »
Hate to say it but I'm more interested in that Viking sword,forge that blade yourself?

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: A Bit different!
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2017, 04:18:37 PM »
You are a very interesting man with unusual interests and incredible talent! Couple questions. What is the stock wood? Got pics of the inside of the lock? How big is 14mm in American?
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline smart dog

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Re: A Bit different!
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2017, 04:42:17 PM »
Hi Mike,
It is 55 caliber. Also Mike, if you go to the link Richard provided it has inside photos of the original lock.

dave
« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 04:43:49 PM by smart dog »
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: A Bit different!
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2017, 04:58:57 PM »
Hi Mike,
It is 55 caliber. Also Mike, if you go to the link Richard provided it has inside photos of the original lock.

dave
Oh sure, now I'm supposed to pay attention too..... ;)

Thanks for pointing out the link, missed it completely. Pretty interesting lock.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: A Bit different!
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2017, 05:12:55 PM »
Great project and great craftsmanship.The German team in Canada back in 1987 had
a few match locks (Luntenschloss) and shot them in a special match.One man from Japan had
one as well.International Muzzle Loading Shoot in Kitchener Ontario,September 1987.
14MM is almost 9/16 in American.
What part of the world are you in??

Bob Roller

Offline Pukka Bundook

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Re: A Bit different!
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2017, 05:53:00 PM »
Well Gents, I'm pleased you like it.
I just get a rush out of playing with old stuff.  :-)
It's hard to get something altogether wrong if we do real obscure type stuff LOL!  (As in, who'll know anyway.  :-) )
Answers if I can;

Smart Dog,
The pan is merely soldered in place.
Yes Bolek is Brilliant  and did it right, dovetailed in , usually from the rear is correct.  As the farm keeps me far too busy, I had to figure where to take some short -cuts, as I wanted to try a snap-lock and didn't have one.
The pan won't just fall off.  :-)  (English doubles still have the ribs soft -soldered in place and stand a terrific amount of use.)
That's my defense anyway.  :-)

Joe S,
No,  The sword blade I  did   not make.
 Made shorter, but not a sword blade. Have made a few hilts, copies of Viking age and Anglo-Saxon, & Migration....Iron Age.

Mike,
No idea on the stock wood!  Hard as Hades, and carves like soap. Polished straight from the chisel.  Was told it was very hard old Cherry from the Canadian left coast.  Weighs up at Least as heavy as maple.
Will take photos of the lock guts and mortise when I get at it.
The 14MM was the rough bore size, but after fine -boring a bit, it now takes a .60 cal ball as a roll -down fit.

Bob R,
You do nice lock work!
For the last 34 years I've lived in western Canada , in the Alberta parkland/ foothills.  Used to live and farm up in Yorkshire England before that.





Swarf from fine-boring,
A-Saxon, Gilling -West sword hilt.  (Yorkshire sword,   found near where we used to live.)
Blades by Vladimir Cervenka, Czech republic and a grand maker.

Thanks again gents,
Richard.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 10:11:25 PM by Ky-Flinter »

Offline smart dog

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Re: A Bit different!
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2017, 07:12:07 PM »
Hi Richard,
I bet many original pans were brazed on rather than dovetailed. Bolek's method is one way and yours is another.  Very nice gun.

dave 
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n stephenson

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Re: A Bit different!
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2017, 08:15:44 PM »
Richard, That is a VERY COOL! piece . Your talent is evident. Nice workmanship!!  Thanks for sharing your build. I DO LOVE DIFFERENT!!  Thanks Nate

Offline Daryl

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Re: A Bit different!
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2017, 08:16:13 PM »
WOW- from the first picture to the 5th with finished barrel!  You are a master with a file!
That's quite a gun!
« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 08:18:05 PM by Daryl »
Daryl

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ddoyle

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Re: A Bit different!
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2017, 08:32:05 PM »
Thank you so much for teaching/showing what can be accomplished with a 'draw knife' working steel. Now it seems obvious where the idea for the first power shaper came from. 
 

Offline Pukka Bundook

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Re: A Bit different!
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2017, 08:35:10 PM »
Thanks chaps, for  the very kind replies.
The first barrel I used the "draw knife" on, was a homemade "Southern" rifle.  .44 cal home -reamed and rifled job.
Wanted flats on it and wondered how to cut them by hand.
Draw -knife worked wonderfully, but I didn't need the fire on whilst I was doing it!
Could put a flat on in 20 minutes with that softer steel.  (43" barrel) I swamped it, but should have swamped more on that one.  Heavy still at a  tad under 10 lbs.

Lost a lot of pictures through computer fries. Never get around to backing them up.

Was also going to say I didn't measure the flats for the octagon on this one, just eye-balled them, as originals are Not clinical, and clinical doesn't look right.

Very best,
Richard.

Offline Pukka Bundook

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Re: A Bit different!
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2017, 08:41:00 PM »
Thank you so much for teaching/showing what can be accomplished with a 'draw knife' working steel. Now it seems obvious where the idea for the first power shaper came from.

DDoyle,
I could do a few photos showing the 'draw-knifing" a bit clearer.  I don't know if anyone else has tried this  or not, but it does work.
Tried a rasp, & a surform and picked up an angle grinder and put it down again. the latter would have warped the steel.
Had a good Ohio Tool Co drawknife on the wall, and tried it gently. It cut, so made one out of a worn out file.

Richard.


Offline SingleMalt

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Re: A Bit different!
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2017, 09:39:19 PM »
That's a really cool piece.  What's the shooting stance like?  Is it shouldered or held away from the shooter?
Never drink whisky that isn't old enough to vote.

"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."- Plato

"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."

somehippy

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Re: A Bit different!
« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2017, 12:53:31 AM »
Impressive! I doubt there's hardly anybody making guns like you!  What sparked your interest in these "older" guns?  Really don't hear of or see much about them let alone making them. 

You and I live not so far apart.  Just wondering if we may have crossed paths at and archery shoot by chance? 

Awesome stuff happening in my back yard ther 8)


Offline Pukka Bundook

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Re: A Bit different!
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2017, 04:17:06 AM »
Single Malt,

The stock is held so that a corner off the butt just about touches the chest near the collar-bone. Quite heavy so very comfortable to fire.
Face Can lightly touch the stock as well but not made with that in mind. We have to go forward a few years before the first cheek stock was made.

Hippy,
Reason for doing older stuff?  Started with sidelock ejectors and box-locks, soon migrated to hammer guns, (still love nice ones!)  drifted back to percussion, (same as hammer guns, still love 'em!)  Then flint, then matchlock . 
The Only way forward is backwards.  If you see what I mean.

 Made bows , spears and all.  I suppose in the end I'll wind up sharpening my teeth...  :-)
Actually it was another English bloke who got me onto matchlocks . Mentioned it in the other M-lock thread.
 Maurice Taylor...
 Another Yorkshire-man, who wrote an article in M-Loader mag (I think) in the early 90's, about archaic locks, and said quote,"For reliability, the palm must ever go to the matchlock".  That was it, I Had to make one to find out.
Maurice has used his for chasing goats up and down the Nelson Range of NZ for years, that and Snaphance, English dog-lock wheellock and every other odd and unusual variety.
I have a couple of Indian Toradors I'm getting into shape as well. Very different again, but they work.

No, I never have got to an archery shoot over here, just shot on the farm.  If not too far away, it'd be a pleasure to meet you though!

Richard.