Guru Help Needed - Cleaning Patches That Never Show "Clean"

[Marcruger]

Hi Guys,

Have y’all experienced scrubbing a bore extensively, and ending up with black residue on the patches that never gets lighter or fully goes away? 

Occasionally I run into this.  Yesterday I shot probably 15 rounds at the range, wiping between shots with plain water.  I was experimenting with Lehigh Valley Lube versus TOTW Mink Oil.   Goex 2f, very humid day after a rain shower.  50 degrees F. 

I scraped the breech face and dumped out the little that was scraped loose.  I then flushed the bore with plain lukewarm water.  I then ran about 5 patches through the bore, each one lighter than the last.  I then flushed and patched again.  Same situation.  Each patch pass had less fouling than the one prior.
 
I then flushed a third time, and followed up with patches.  By now the patches only had dark grey lines where the jag fit, and a few long streaks down the patch behind the jag.  Then there was no improvement. 

At this point I hit frustration.  I switched to Lehigh Valley used as a cleaner.  No better.  I did the same with Hoppe’s BP solvent.  No better.  Every patch looked the same.  I went to Break Free CLP.  Same. 

I did notice after a bit that when I wiped my steep range rod, the patch would be coated with charcoal color.  I cleaned it off, and it was back on the rod again after a few passes.  There couldn't possibly be that much black powder left in the bore at this point for sure.
 
Am I getting a chemical reaction of some sort with the rod??

I probably used 40 patches yesterday, and none came out clean like you’d expect if it were a modern smokeless gun.  I spent an hour cleaning.
 
My range rod is stainless, and the jag is a typical TOTW brass with steel threads.
 
Help?

God bless,   Marc

[rich pierce]

Well at some point with a tight fitting patch you’re rubbing steel onto the patch.

[wattlebuster]

Your getting graphite discoloration on your patches an its nothing to worry about. The water you used in the flushes killed the carbon of the powder an as long as you dry the barrel good an then chase it with some good oil (I use bear oil) then you will be fine. I think most people overthink the cleaning of blackpowder guns. I been using the plain ole water for 40 yrs to clean my flintlocks an have not had one rust up yet. Others opinions will very of course but it will be just like mine in one way. Its just an opinion an not worth the price of a cup of coffee

[Standing Bear]

If your range rod is brass, try one of SS.
TC

[OldMtnMan]

Do you ever use a brush?

[Marcruger]

My range rod is stainless steel.  Yes, I do use a nylon bore brush somewhere in the cleaning process.  The nylon brush doesn't seem to do that much, but I always worry about a bronze brush getting stuck in the bore.  Many thanks for the suggestions,   Marc

[OldMtnMan]

I use to worry about the brush getting stuck too until I found this one. It won't get stuck and is made not to. Read the description.

http://www.octobercountry.com/msm-bore-brushes/

[Darkhorse]

Have you ever used Bore Butter in your gun? It will leave a residue that builds up over time. No matter how much you clean the patches never come out clean. I still use BB for hunting and when the patches begin to show the buildup I clean it with a patch soaked in Brake or Carb. cleaner. A couple of patches and it cleans it all out. But be careful don't spray it on your gun spray it on a patch and keep it off the finish and wood.

[hanshi]

I run into the same thing from time to time.  I'm pretty sure it is not BP fouling at all.  I think you'll be okay just cleaning, drying and oiling and not worrying about gray on your patches.

[snapper]

get some disinfectit wipes and use that as your cleaning patch.  I bet after a couple you will have not sign of any black

does wonder for cleaning.

Fleener

[Woodsrunner79]

I used to use a product called "dirty duck". The patches were pink and reeked of ammonia, but they sure did cut through EVERYTHING. Fowling, Borebutter, leading. I used them on both my suppository and muzzle fed guns. Don't know if they still make it.  I found that if I just kept adding alittle ammonia to the container and putting more patches back in. I could keep the same container going forever.

[smokinbuck]

Mtn man,
You're playing with fire with that brush. Brushes that are attached to the threaded portion from the front can, and do, pull out. There is a "tornado" brush that is looped at the threaded stud and is very strong. If cleaned properly and often a brush should not be needed.
Mark

[OldMtnMan]

I've used them for years with no problems. I think one of the reasons they reverse easily is they don't fit real tight. Tight enough to clean, but stay together and reverse.

[Daryl]

Interesting, my ML's have never seen a brush nor a breech scraper and they still shine one end to the other, including the patent breeches and plugs. My oldest gun is not really old, only 32 years coming up and I suspect, more than a couple hundred pounds of lead through her - hmm - that sounds a bit light.  I used 25 pounds in it in one year.

Regardless,  she's still nice and smooth and shiny - NEVER have I had a perfectly clean DRYING patch come out - always the grey streaks.  I then spray WD40 down the bore until it runs out the nipple seat, then patch the excess WD40 out - THOSE are perfectly clean patches - no grey, black of anything by wet/damp with WD40.

The grey that is on a patch after drying - last patches starting to become then becoming very grabby when pulled out, will show red after a day or so, instead of the grey they had when 'freshly used'- red is from the iron oxide's you pulled from the bore's surface, as Rich noted.  This 'pulling' of material is the polishing or the bore that happens with shooting and cleaning.

A 12L14 barrel will likely show more of this 'grey/red' than a harder barrel material.

[OldMtnMan]

My last patch is white. I put it back in the pile and use it again.

[Daryl]

Interesting - I re-use all my old patches, over and over.  There will be one cleaning patch and 4 to 5 drying patches with one oil patch.

[Mtn Meek]

Someone recently asked, "Define 'easy to load'?"

Interesting - I re-use all my old patches, over and over.

The quote above sounds like the definition to "tight wad". 

[OldMtnMan]

Interesting - I re-use all my old patches, over and over.  There will be one cleaning patch and 4 to 5 drying patches with one oil patch.

Yeah, but they aren't white. (You said so) Maybe you should use more patches tight wad.

[Standing Bear]

I reuse most of my good flannel patches.  Not a tightwad tho I hate to discard usable materials of any kind.  They get more stained each use then discarded after 5+ uses. They are also more “ fluffy” after each cleaning. 

As I don’t wipe between shots and only use 5-6 patches to clean I wait till I have 2-3 outings of patches. Put them in a plastic jar w a drop of detergent, half fill w water and agitate.  Next day or so agitate again, squeeze em out, rinse and lay out to dry.

[OldMtnMan]

Local shop sells nice fluffy patches 500 for $13. Cheap enough for me to use and throw away. The only patches I reuse are the ones used to dry the bore after flushing because they only got wet.

[Daryl]

Interesting - I re-use all my old patches, over and over.  There will be one cleaning patch and 4 to 5 drying patches with one oil patch.

Yeah, but they aren't white. (You said so) Maybe you should use more patches tight wad.

Only need one to clean and 4 to 5 to dry. What's the problem?  I only use what is necessary to clean and dry the bore.  Even the smoothbore shooting shot which really fouls a bore, only uses one to clean and 4 or 5 to dry. Why would you use more than necessary to get the bore clean?

[OldMtnMan]

You don't have to unless you want the patches snow white when you're done. For me that means some solvent and a brush now and then. Especially, if i've been playing with lead conicals which I do now and then. They're as traditional as a PRB if you move up in time a bit.

[smylee grouch]

I use two for cleaning, the first one is the last drying patch from the previous cleanin g and the second is a new one for insurance. I throw these away. I then use three or four for drying and save the last drying patch for the next cleaning session. I don't worry if their not snow white, when the bore is dry it's WD-40 time. Six patches really  doesn't set a guy back that much.

[OldMtnMan]

Nope, it doesn't. 6 patches cost me $.36. That's why I don't count how many I use.

[Daryl]

Not like I count them - don't care -  but I know it take only 5 or 6 patches all together.  I re-use what doesn't need to be thrown out. I don't care if there is a little redish/wash on the patch I use for cleaning or drying - doesn't matter to me or the gun.

My last patch to come out of the bore, are the ones used for oiling and the WD40 flush. They are wet only - otherwise snow white like freshly fallen snow.

I use those as oil rag/patches for the outside of the gun where needed.

$#*!, If I had your money OldmtnMan, I wouldn't need ANY of mine, the kids could have it all.