rear sight notch

[smylee grouch]

Is there a "gun term" for the depression or hollowed out portion on the front face of a rear sight? What does it accomplish or do and what does it not do?

[retired fella]

I have always thought by minimizing the thickness of the blade it lessened glare from light.

[P.Bigham]

Gathers light from what I have been told   

[yellowhousejake]

It is my understanding, and experience, that the relief behind the notch is to provide a thinner edge. A thinner edge will catch less light and will also appear sharper. If you had a thick edge and were not "exactly" behind the sight, you would get two edges for your eyes to focus on. The forward edge and the rear edge of one, or the other, side of the notch.

Now, you are not supposed to focus on the rear sight anyway, but if it has a more than one edge visible on a side it can give you two distinct shades of "fuzz" in the notch. It is not very repeatable. Imagine looking through a doorway verses looking down a hallway. That is the same reason that peep sights are relieved on the forward side of the aperture (the actual peep hole).

If you made the blade thin enough to provide a sharp sight sight picture, it would be very fragile.

DAve

[smylee grouch]

I some what agree with every thing said so far, so when I make a rear sight, I file the forward edge of the notch at some what of an angle to create a "knife edge" with the back of the sight flat and the forward edge more open. I have thought of "tinning" part of or most of the Hollowed portion with silver solder to see if it reflected more light up into the notch so as to see it better in low light conditions or deep shade but haven't tried that yet. Food for thought any way. Still would like to know if there is an actual term for the hollowed out portion of the front face of that rear sight.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I don't know if there is a name for it, but it is vital for a clear sight picture.  Various explanations here have described its function adequately, but I'll add a bit of thought too.  If the sides of the notch are thick - let's say 1/8" - light bounces back and forth across the walls of the notch distorting the edges to the eye.  The milled out cup thins the notch to prevent this and greatly clarifies the notch.  Likewise, tilting the rear sight rearward puts the back surface in shadow theoretically, and has the additional effect of clarifying the notch, again keeping light from bouncing around the notch causing distortion.  Moving the sight down the barrel to your focal length again clarifies the notch further.  My problem is seeing the top edge clearly.  It is difficult to shoot consistently when you cannot tell if the front sight is level with, below, or above the top edge of the rear sight. Oh, to be sixty again!

[Hungry Horse]

I actually bore the rear sight front to rear with a bit in the 1/4” range, and soldered in a thin piece of sterling silver in a half moon shape, with the flat side up. I then filed a slight lazy V in the silver, followed by a small round bottom notch that just accommodates the small  barley corn front sight. I wipe the silver with a dirt patch to tarnish it, and Mother Nature takes care of it from then on. Silver tarnish is a nice flat black glare free coating that if it needs to be removed in the dark timber, can be with a quick scrape of your patch knife. Oh by the way my front sight is silver as well for the same reason.

  Hungry Horse

[hanshi]

As Taylor and smylee mentioned, I angle my rear sights back and file the front of the notch at an angle to thin it and reduce glare.  The rear should be fuzzy to the eye, anyway; and the front sight should be clearly in focus.

[Joe S.]

In my mind,rear,front sight and target should all be clear and sharp but that would require time travel these days

[Hungry Horse]

Y’all have to remember that light is’nt the friend of old eyes. If you can drive at night in heavy traffic without the dazzle of the oncoming headlights giving you a headache, you don’t have old eyes. Limiting the amount of light coming through the sights, and any reflected light from rear sights that are too thick, is the trick. And as has been said by others, angleing the rear sight so you don’t have a reflective surface is another big help.

  Hungry Horse

[retired fella]

I have always used a candle to black the back side of the rear sight.  Seems to help with my old eyes.

[P.W.Berkuta]

Candle soot and soot from a carbide lighter like that used on modern rifles in high power competition do a great job BUT where black powder is concerned the technique is frowned upon at the range when shooting black powder guns .

[jerrywh]

I don't know if there is a name for it, but it is vital for a clear sight picture.  Various explanations here have described its function adequately, but I'll add a bit of thought too.  If the sides of the notch are thick - let's say 1/8" - light bounces back and forth across the walls of the notch distorting the edges to the eye.  The milled out cup thins the notch to prevent this and greatly clarifies the notch.  Likewise, tilting the rear sight rearward puts the back surface in shadow theoretically, and has the additional effect of clarifying the notch, again keeping light from bouncing around the notch causing distortion.  Moving the sight down the barrel to your focal length again clarifies the notch further.  My problem is seeing the top edge clearly.  It is difficult to shoot consistently when you cannot tell if the front sight is level with, below, or above the top edge of the rear sight. Oh, to be sixty again!

   OH to be 70 again

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Jerry:  I'm so close now, I don't want to fight about it.  And that's ok...many don't get this far.  I am blessed.

[elkhorne]

Amen to that! You have to be our age to question, Learn and understand the things that are discussed on this site. The millenials can't get off their "smart phones" long enough to figure out they do not know half of what they think they know! A very wise commander of mine once said, "ignorance is temporary but stupidity is forever!" I want to try several site designs to figure out which one works best for my eyes.
elkhorne

[Waksupi]

I don't know if there is a name for it, but it is vital for a clear sight picture.  Various explanations here have described its function adequately, but I'll add a bit of thought too.  If the sides of the notch are thick - let's say 1/8" - light bounces back and forth across the walls of the notch distorting the edges to the eye.  The milled out cup thins the notch to prevent this and greatly clarifies the notch.  Likewise, tilting the rear sight rearward puts the back surface in shadow theoretically, and has the additional effect of clarifying the notch, again keeping light from bouncing around the notch causing distortion.  Moving the sight down the barrel to your focal length again clarifies the notch further.  My problem is seeing the top edge clearly.  It is difficult to shoot consistently when you cannot tell if the front sight is level with, below, or above the top edge of the rear sight. Oh, to be sixty again!

I get around that problem by widening the rear notches on my guns, so I have light equal on both sides, to the width of the front sight. Helps a heap.

[Hungry Horse]

Waksi;

 What you are doing is exactly backwards to what actually works. Teddy Roosevelt spend a lifetime looking for sights that worked for poor eye sight, and a fortune as well. The formula he came up with was a shallow V shaped rear sight, with a round bottomed notch at the bottom of the V, that just fits the bead, or barleycorn, front sight, with little or no light on either side. You are right, you can’t judge the top of the sight with the top of the notch. And, your eyes can’t accurately split the light on either side of the sight either. So, you need a sight combination that doesn’t require trying to make your eyes do what they won’t do anymore. I only wish I had found this system before I got so old, and blind, and shaky. I might have been quite a contender. Good Luck.

  Hungry Horse

[Waksupi]

Waksi;

 What you are doing is exactly backwards to what actually works. Teddy Roosevelt spend a lifetime looking for sights that worked for poor eye sight, and a fortune as well. The formula he came up with was a shallow V shaped rear sight, with a round bottomed notch at the bottom of the V, that just fits the bead, or barleycorn, front sight, with little or no light on either side. You are right, you can’t judge the top of the sight with the top of the notch. And, your eyes can’t accurately split the light on either side of the sight either. So, you need a sight combination that doesn’t require trying to make your eyes do what they won’t do anymore. I only wish I had found this system before I got so old, and blind, and shaky. I might have been quite a contender. Good Luck.

  Hungry Horse

I've got the wide notch and bead on my safari dangerous game rifle. Good for close in work, but not too hot on target work. I don't know if you go to any of the local shoots around here, but you will usually find me somewhere in the top shooters, with my sights that don't work.

[Hungry Horse]

Yes, but their eyes are actually working right. Either because they are younger, and their eyes haven’t suffered the ravages of time, or they have they ponied up some cash for laser eye surgery.
 Those sights are a military Patridge sight. They were designed for close  combat not sniping.

  Hungry Horse

[Acer Saccharum]

Make your front sight nice and square, at whatever width you can see well.

Take a piece of black electric tape and make a rear 'try sight' out of it. Fold the tape so it sticks to itself, and stick the remaining 'ears' down on the barrel. Trim it off to the height you like. Cut a notch wide enough to see your front sight clearly. You can pull up the tape, and move it farther down the barrel if you need to. If your notch is wide enough, you should be able to see your front sight clearly, and center it easily in the notch.

Keep trying different widths and placements until you get a decent sight picture, then replicate it in steel.

This is not the traditional barleycorn sight, but a more modern style.

[Waksupi]

Yes, but their eyes are actually working right. Either because they are younger, and their eyes haven’t suffered the ravages of time, or they have they ponied up some cash for laser eye surgery.
 Those sights are a military Patridge sight. They were designed for close  combat not sniping.

  Hungry Horse

Well, there is a monthly ML shoot within ten miles of you, plus the military and sporting rifle matches at Columbia Falls during the winter I shoot at. Then the Eureka, Marion, and Fawn Creek rendezvous in this area. I don't recall running into you in the past 25 or 30 years at any of them as far as I know. Come shoot.

[Hungry Horse]

It’s a little to far to travel from Northern California. I shot at the Tall Trees Rendezvous for over twenty years, among others, so this ain’t my first rodeo either.
 Just trying to help, sorry it isn’t appreciated.

  Hungry Horse

[Daryl]

This style is now the best for me.



upload photo to web



picture host ru



That last picture- that's pretty much WHAT I actually see- perhaps a bit sharper, actually.

[Hungry Horse]

That picture is very similar to the sight I use except on mine the front sight fit perfectly into the notch at the bottom of the rear sight.

  Hungry Horse

[smylee grouch]

Daryl: your sight, front and rear are very close to what I use except my rear sight is tilted forward not back and the rear of the rear sight blade has a triangle/pyramid of silver solder with the apex point right at the bottom of the notch. Real quick to pic up and see in low light situations. Helps tremendously for my old eyes.