Western Arms Hawken clean out screw

[L Meadows]

Was looking at a rifle for sale and everything looked great until I got to the pic of the panel on the lock bolt side,it shows what I'm pretty sure( pic is fuzzy) is a clean out screw and a relief cut under it in the lock panel. It looks terrible to say the least and I haven't seen this before. Any pics that could verify this?

[L Meadows]

After some more searching I found a pic. Doesn't show the clean out screw but that relief cut looks terrible! Any suggestions for a fix? Maybe a piece of walnut grafted in? Is the clean out screw necessary? If covered it would be usable when barrel was out of stock anyway,and from past experience clean out screws usually seize and are impossible to remove.

[Bob Roller]

After some more searching I found a pic. Doesn't show the clean out screw but that relief cut looks terrible! Any suggestions for a fix? Maybe a piece of walnut grafted in? Is the clean out screw necessary? If covered it would be usable when barrel was out of stock anyway,and from past experience clean out screws usually seize and are impossible to remove.

This is one more modern alteration to antique designs.I have drilled them out of
T/C's for local shooters.
Bob Roller

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

It's not meant to be a clean out screw.  It's just an easy way to drill through to the nipple seat.  Then the hole is plugged with a screw.  This is a valid way for a patent breech system, but not HC for a Hawken.  More than likely, someone in marketing suggested that the plug could be called a 'clean out screw' would be a good marketing ploy, and to $#*! with HC!  If you use it for a clean out screw, you will almost certainly ruin the head trying to extract it through breech fouling.  Same goes for the screw in modern percussion drums and patent breeches.

[L Meadows]

Mr. Sapergia, I have been lurking here for a while and have followed your Hawken builds as well as Herb's and must say both of you do outstanding work! As far as this rifle, the undercut in the lock panel is horrendous for me, was thinking a patch would fix that. As to the gun itself,I realize it's not close to the custom rifles yourself and Herb and others build but how does this rifle stack up against those like Thompson Center and Lyman's Great Plains rifle? I've read that internal lock parts can be a problem but Track of the Wolf offers an L&R replacement kit,any other advice would be appreciated.

[mountainman70]

Hi Shankey, welcome aboard. Is this a new made  gun ? Sure looks it.  Have a goodun, Dave F 

[P.Bigham]

I had one of these years ago. Excellent shooting rifle. Had to use a .526 ball .530 wouldn’t go down with a patch.  Never had a problem with the lock. Probably had it for 15 years.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Fixing the notch in the left side of the stock would be easily accomplished, if it offends you.  Remove the barrel and the lock, use a rat tailed file to cut a perfect half circle out of that notch so that the top edges are sharp - a 3/8" or 1/2" file, or even a sanding drum on a Dremel rotary tool will do it.  Cut a piece of walnut so that the grain orients just like the grain of the stock, sand it to fit, glue it in with Titebond  glue or similar, and finish.

I'd have to see full length images of the rifle before I could make a comment on them compared to other factory offerings.  In percussion, I suspect you'd have zero issues with component parts.

[L Meadows]

Though this is not the exact rifle I'm interested in this is a Western Arms rifle,odd thing is some have notch cut in lock panel and some don't.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Well, for a factory effort, that is a pretty decent rendition of a Hawken rifle.  It resembles the Cherry Corners/Ithaca/Navy Arms Hawken rifle to my eye.  I'm sure it would make most folks very satisfied, and if you wanted nicer, some stock refinement would be easy.  This rifle is miles ahead of T/C or Lyman in every way visible.

[L Meadows]

Thanks Taylor.

[Lampro]

I have one of these rifles. It was made in 1984, I got it used about a year ago. I love it, it's very accurate and I've never had any problem with the lock or triggers. I've heard they have a choked bore, it does feel that way when loading. I have a Pedersoli too and the Western is significantly lighter. The Pedersoli is a little barrel heavy and the Western is not, IMHO. The sights are easier to see too, on the Western, because the rear sight is positioned farther forward. The only drawback to the Western is that they take a .520 or .526 ball and mine has a somewhat long length of pull for me at 15 1/4".

[Black Hand]

Just a thought -
To me it looks as if they ran out of R-hand stocks and used one profiled for a L-hand lock. The position of the cut-out appears to correspond to the position of the snail. If this is the case, their QC/QA stinks and there is no telling what else might be wrong with their manufacturing...

[L Meadows]

The stock isn't cut for the snail,the lock is cut for the snail.

[Black Hand]

The stock isn't cut for the snail,the lock is cut for the snail.

Then the coincidence is staggering. I guess the stock just had a very regular semi-circular defect at the exact point where the snail would be located....

[L Meadows]

The picture doesn't show it clearly but there is a screw where the cut is,so I'm guessing the cut is there to get to the screw. I may be wrong,wouldn't be the first time and surely not the last. Guess we will just leave it where it is,speculation. Either way it doesn't really matter,it's just plain ugly!

[mountainman70]

Hey shankeyman; didja buy it ? If so, you could dive rite in like I did and make it more like what it should be.  I have looked up several of these guns by same builder, same  peculiarity as you are dealing with here. I suppose one way to fix it is with a half round piece glued in and worked to blend as well as possible.
Ya never know til you give it a go. Best regards, Dave F

[L Meadows]

 Not yet,still looking. Your rifle looks great with the changes you made,that's the great thing about this site,knowledgeable people who are willing to help.

[mountainman70]

Thanks a heap. These guys will help,but we gotta be able to accept some critique.Thas ok by me, that is how I have learned several trades in my working years, and still learning.
Gunbroker has some decent deals, but you gotta school up and know your gun before you go bidding. Just the parts to build a Hawken ,plain maple,is around 900.00mthen ya gottaa go and build it, and Hawkens aren't a good first build, but a heckufa learning curve to say the least.
Hope you find one reasonable and enjoy these ol smokepoles. Best regards, Dave F