Author Topic: No Short Starter?  (Read 2190 times)

Offline OldMtnMan

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No Short Starter?
« on: January 12, 2018, 09:43:45 PM »
For a kit I plan on buying in the future it has a Rice barrel. I went to their web site and was reading the do's and don't's with his barrel.

Here's one i'm copy/pasting that I can't figure out. It has no explanation about why. What do you think?

DO NOT:
Short start the patched ball.
Pete

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Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: No Short Starter?
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2018, 09:54:46 PM »
"Don't short start the patched ball"...without pushing it to rest firmly on the powder with your ramrod.  If you forget the last part, and fire the rifle, you'll at very least, ring your barrel, and at worst, cause it to rupture.  A rung barrel is not necessarily the end of the world either.  My Virginia rifle has a swollen spot, barely perceptible when cleaning, caused by a newbie using my rifle on loan.  It has not diminished its accuracy in the least, but is annoying knowing that it is there.
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Offline OldMtnMan

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Re: No Short Starter?
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2018, 10:08:11 PM »
Oh ok. I thought those were two separate things he wanted done. I couldn't figure out why he didn't want a short starter used.

Makes sense now. Thanks.
Pete

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Online redheart

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Re: No Short Starter?
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2018, 10:39:57 PM »
Personally, I think any barrel worth it's salt ought to be able to withstand being fired with a short started ball numerous times without damage,
Otherwise,  What good is it?  I wouldn't buy a barrel that won't meet this criteria.
I've got better things to do than replace my barrel every week or so.

Offline Pukka Bundook

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Re: No Short Starter?
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2018, 10:45:27 PM »
It's quite easy Redheart, ensure the ball is seated properly and you won't Have to replace any barrels, or fingers or whatever.  :-)

Offline hanshi

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Re: No Short Starter?
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2018, 10:49:00 PM »
Taylor, I had the same thing happen with my Virginia rifle; hardly noticeable but there just the same.  Couldn't tell from the outside but a tight patch would tell you it had a swollen ring 2/3 down the barrel.  Still it would make one hole groups out beyond 60 yards just like always.  Hmmm...6 degrees of sep.... 
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Online redheart

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Re: No Short Starter?
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2018, 10:50:23 PM »
"Don't short start the patched ball"...without pushing it to rest firmly on the powder with your ramrod.  If you forget the last part, and fire the rifle, you'll at very least, ring your barrel, and at worst, cause it to rupture.  A rung barrel is not necessarily the end of the world either.  My Virginia rifle has a swollen spot, barely perceptible when cleaning, caused by a newbie using my rifle on loan.  It has not diminished its accuracy in the least, but is annoying knowing that it is there.
D.,
It sounds like you have the perfect rifle now because perhaps the ring in the bore will provide a pressure relief for the next time you fire a short started ball.
I think you builders should offer this as an option for idiots like me that talk too much while they're loading. :)

Online redheart

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Re: No Short Starter?
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2018, 10:52:03 PM »
It's quite easy Redheart, ensure the ball is seated properly and you won't Have to replace any barrels, or fingers or whatever.  :-)
Thanks Pukka,
Do you have any advice that will help me to remember to do this? ;)

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: No Short Starter?
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2018, 10:52:48 PM »
Acer Saccharrum posted images of a barrel he had short started and fired without seating the ball.  It was ruptured and though no one was hurt, there's a lesson here.  That is why one should NEVER short start a ball without seating it properly on the powder.  If you are doing this on a regular basis and surviving, I don't want to shoot next to you.
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Online redheart

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Re: No Short Starter?
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2018, 11:08:12 PM »
Acer Saccharrum posted images of a barrel he had short started and fired without seating the ball.  It was ruptured and though no one was hurt, there's a lesson here.  That is why one should NEVER short start a ball without seating it properly on the powder.  If you are doing this on a regular basis and surviving, I don't want to shoot next to you.
Thanks Taylor,
Honestly I wouldn't want to shoot next to myself either, and I like you too much to allow you to be within a 500 yd. radius of me when I'm shooting.

Offline OldMtnMan

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Re: No Short Starter?
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2018, 12:06:19 AM »
I have a voice programmed in my brain that tells me the ramrod is the last thing I use when loading. It screams at me if I screw up.
Pete

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Online redheart

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Re: No Short Starter?
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2018, 12:47:58 AM »
I have a voice programmed in my brain that tells me the ramrod is the last thing I use when loading. It screams at me if I screw up.
All kidding aside. So have I. I had fired a short started ball three times in about a six month period and said to myself Wow!!! you better get your act together or someone' going to die and it's going be your fault. Just thinking about that seems to have put that warning into my thick head.

Offline OldMtnMan

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Re: No Short Starter?
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2018, 01:03:24 AM »
I was being serious. It doesn't scream at me, but I have a weird feeling that something is wrong. Then I start to focus again.

Shooting ranges are the worst for me. Too many distractions. I enjoy solo woods walks better.
Pete

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Offline Pukka Bundook

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Re: No Short Starter?
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2018, 06:42:22 AM »
It's quite easy Redheart, ensure the ball is seated properly and you won't Have to replace any barrels, or fingers or whatever.  :-)
Thanks Pukka,
Do you have any advice that will help me to remember to do this? ;)

Only thing I can think of is tie a knot in your barrel, Redheart!    ;)

Offline Black Hand

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Re: No Short Starter?
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2018, 07:00:09 AM »
As has been discussed/debated/argued before, a short starter isn't truly necessary...

Offline JVavrek

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Re: No Short Starter?
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2018, 07:13:16 AM »
Can someone help me out here? How in the heck do you get do not short start the patched ball out of a unseated ball. I can see where OldMtnMan got confused. Terrible use of terminology. Why would they not just say don't shoot a unseated ball? 
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 07:14:02 AM by JVavrek »
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Offline Larry Pletcher

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Re: No Short Starter?
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2018, 02:55:43 PM »
Acer Saccharrum posted images of a barrel he had short started and fired without seating the ball.  It was ruptured and though no one was hurt, there's a lesson here.  That is why one should NEVER short start a ball without seating it properly on the powder.  If you are doing this on a regular basis and surviving, I don't want to shoot next to you.

Taylor, one thing I remember Acer saying was that the short starter he used placed the ball on or very near a dovetail. When I read this I looked over my short starters and made sure mine would not put the ball near a dovetail.
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Offline Goo

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Re: No Short Starter?
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2018, 04:15:34 PM »
Sounds like I should inlay some color coded bands into my RR......
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Offline Bigmon

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Re: No Short Starter?
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2018, 05:06:21 PM »
How much p[owder is being used to "ring" these barrels?  Or burst them.
Perhaps that is one of the reasons they are damaged if short started by mistake.
I can say I have seen it done more than a few times and never was aware of any damage?  Of course most folks where I shoot use pretty lite loads
I only use 75gr 2F in my 54 swamped barrel even when hunting?

Offline J Henry

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Re: No Short Starter?
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2018, 05:12:28 PM »
  Get your head in the game and pay attention to what you are doing and you wont short start and forget to seat the ball on the powder.Attention to detail,simple as that.

Offline OldMtnMan

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Re: No Short Starter?
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2018, 06:39:04 PM »
  Get your head in the game and pay attention to what you are doing and you wont short start and forget to seat the ball on the powder.Attention to detail,simple as that.

Concentrate. There should be a space after a period and comma.  ;D


Sorry, I had to bust your chops a little.
Pete

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Offline Elnathan

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Re: No Short Starter?
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2018, 07:00:42 PM »
I've short started my barrel several times, back when I first started shooting it, without apparent damage. I've always used pretty light charges (50g FFg in .50) , though, as the rear dovetail is just a hair deeper than I'm happy with (though safe enough, according to an experienced smith I showed it to).

Next gun and setup I make, I'm either going to find a load/crown combination that doesn't need a short starter to shoot well, or use a knife handle to start the ball a la Audubon's description of D. Boone's loading technique. I suspect that it would be a lot harder to forget to ram the ball if it is sitting right at the muzzle....Personally, I like the idea of shooting a muzzleloader in a way conducive to doing so under stress, or when exhausted, or cold and hungry - pretty normal conditions for frontier marksmanship - but I have a family that reminds me from time to time that I am a nut.
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Offline Pukka Bundook

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Re: No Short Starter?
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2018, 07:17:45 PM »
Forgetting things, Yep. been there and done it!
Had a 16 bore flowing piece in the workshop one time.  Thought I'd try it for sparks.
Yes, I'd forgotten it was loaded,    And yes, it Did go off. I know, Always leave rammer in a barrel left loaded.  What I Know and Do aren't always the same.
Above gun didn't need any priming either....not That time.  Heavy oak plank caught the charge though.

R.

Offline Daryl

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Re: No Short Starter?
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2018, 08:22:25 PM »
With a loaded gun, I put a leather plug between hammer and nipple, or masking tape on the frizzen.  That was KNOW the gun is loaded, if sitting with it's buddies in the safe.
Daryl

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Offline Pukka Bundook

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Re: No Short Starter?
« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2018, 11:01:17 PM »
Daryl,

The old 18th/19th way was always leave the ramrod in the bore.  That was an international sign, but Did I?   Not that time!