Author Topic: Initial cutting for long incised lines  (Read 2774 times)

Offline Justin

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Initial cutting for long incised lines
« on: January 12, 2018, 11:04:11 PM »
I plan to start carving decorations on my stock this weekend and I want to start with the long straight lines for the fore-stock moulding and the butt stock moulding.

A gun builder friend of mine says he uses a 3/16" chisel and just slowly stabs in the line all the way down laying it end to end with some overlap each time. I practiced this method but I used a 1 inch chisel and it seems to work ok but I was only practicing on a 6 inch piece of wood.

I'm curious what others do. I already have the lines drawn on the stock by using a long straight edge -- I just need to get a shallow cut on the line so my checkering tool has a bit of a guide to start the initial cut (I plan to use the checkering tool to make the final cut).
« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 11:09:08 PM by Justin »

Offline Marcruger

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Re: Initial cutting for long incised lines
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2018, 12:35:43 AM »
I have seen others use a small tool that rides the top of the stock or the ramrod channel, and has a cutter on the side of the stock.  That way the molding follows the stock.  I think that there are tutorials somewhere, but my search did not turn them up.  God Bless,   Marc

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Initial cutting for long incised lines
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2018, 12:50:14 AM »
I use a checkering tool that has a cutting edge of about 1". When I feel real froggy I just use a V-tool after I have drawn a straight line.
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Offline conquerordie

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Re: Initial cutting for long incised lines
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2018, 12:51:17 AM »
I used a poor man's beading tool then cleaned it up with files.
Greg

Offline mark esterly

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Re: Initial cutting for long incised lines
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2018, 12:58:07 AM »
don't see why a wood scribe can't be used  for the initial guide lines if you have one.
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Offline Jose Gordo

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Re: Initial cutting for long incised lines
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2018, 01:11:32 AM »






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Offline Mr. Bubbles

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Re: Initial cutting for long incised lines
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2018, 01:16:00 AM »
For those fore end lines, why don't you make yourself a scribe as suggested.  The Recreating the Am Long Rifle book has a pretty good "how to make one" description.  A single line checkering tool is good, but a long  triangular needle file with a turned up end to it (used for touching up checkering) is even better.  That will give you a little longer "rudder in the water" to help keep the lines straight, and an eved width and depth. 

If you belly lines are curved, (like on a Bucks or Lehigh) then you're probably going to have to free hand it.  In that case go really slowly with the V-tool.  Any waves one direction or the other can be corrected on subsequent passes by tilting the tool in the opposite direction to get it more on the right track.

Offline flehto

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Re: Initial cutting for long incised lines
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2018, 01:47:57 AM »
For the upper forestock I use the tool shown in "Recreating the American LR" ...only use it to cut 1/32" deep then chisel to the line for a relief molding.

The lower butt stock molding is penciled in and an Xacto knife cuts on the line and then a chisel removes wood to the line. All my lower butt stock moldings taper from  the Bplate forward and are curved as per the toeline on the Bucks County LRs and the straight toelines are tapered but straight.,,,,,Fred

 







« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 01:55:21 AM by flehto »

Offline Justin

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Re: Initial cutting for long incised lines
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2018, 02:24:00 AM »
I'm hesitatant to use a guide like shown here because if there is any flaw in the parallel-ness of the top and bottom of my stock, I'd end up with a crooked line. By making the line with a straight edge, I know it's straight but then it's not as easy to cut it in.

Offline Black Hand

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Re: Initial cutting for long incised lines
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2018, 02:30:20 AM »
I'm hesitatant to use a guide like shown here because if there is any flaw in the parallel-ness of the top and bottom of my stock, I'd end up with a crooked line. By making the line with a straight edge, I know it's straight but then it's not as easy to cut it in.
It would need to be a considerable divot for the line to show crooked...

Offline Jose Gordo

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Re: Initial cutting for long incised lines
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2018, 03:18:19 AM »
The scribe I posted generally won't show a divot because the length of the wood will bridge a divot.  Try it out using just enough pressure to make a very light scratch.  If there's a problem you'll see it, and you can easily remove any mark you made.  This scribe works best if you sharpen the screw.

I can scribe a molding line with this tool with just two or three passes.

One thing you might consider is sanding the top of the barrel channel with a long flat piece of wood and some sandpaper so that you're sure it's flat.  Takes about one minute.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 03:19:47 AM by Jose Gordo »
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Offline Mark Elliott

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Re: Initial cutting for long incised lines
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2018, 03:32:54 AM »
I draw moulding lines by hand in pencil. There shouldn't be a straight line on a stock, with the exception of the top of the forearm.  So, the moulding lines shouldn't be straight.  Once I have it right,  I cut in most all moulding lines with a Sloyd knife that has had all but about 1/2" of the edge at the tip ground off.   That way, I can grip the blade right up to the tip and put my thumb at the back of the tip.  I walk that rounded tip down the line rolling it back to front.  I also use it to clear the background adjacent to the line I just cut, holding it the way I indicated.     

For the forearm, I generally use a scratchstock to apply the moulding, at least to the upper forearm.   The rest of the moulding is cut as above.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 03:41:48 AM by Mark Elliott »
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Offline digger658

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Re: Initial cutting for long incised lines
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2018, 04:18:50 AM »
I drew a straight line then lightly went over it with a v-tool, then deepened it and straightened it out with a riffle file.....It even surprised me how nice it turned out and this is my first build. ;D

Offline Curtis

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Re: Initial cutting for long incised lines
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2018, 05:43:32 AM »
Justin, if it is too perfect it won't look handmade!   8)  Seriously, I have used most of the methods mentioned here at one time or another, and they all have their merits, including stabbing it with a chisel.  The chisel method was probably my least favorite  - however you will never know what method works well for you until you try it.

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Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Initial cutting for long incised lines
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2018, 06:37:33 AM »
I draw the line using a straight edge if the line is straight, as in a forestock molding line, or curved and tapering if it is on a buttstock.  then I cut it with a Dembart (from Brownell's) parting tool/veiner and correct discrepancies with a short section of safe-sided triangular file.  I relieve the background with a series of chisels and scrape smooth.






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Offline Justin

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Re: Initial cutting for long incised lines
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2018, 07:13:06 AM »
I ended up stabbing it in with a chisel and then used my single line checkering tool to deepen the groove. I think I am going to just use a simple incised line and not cut away the portion above the line. I can always change my mind but from the original Isaac Haines rifle photos I have, I can't tell if he relieved above the line or not. It doesn't look like it in some of the photos but it's tough to tell without holding the rifle.

The line looks pretty good though. Doesn't look like it was cut on a machine for sure but I'm happy with it. "Handmade" :)

Offline Osprey

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Re: Initial cutting for long incised lines
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2018, 11:44:10 PM »
Way I learned and the guys in our buidling group do it is to clamp a 3' metal straight ruler on the forestock and run a knife (Exacto #11, etc) down the edge, then cut back/relieve the upper edge, clean up with files and sanding blocks.  If you have a buddy nearby don't even need clamps, just have them hold the ruler and go slow. 

Or, if you've got a woodburner tool with a sharp tip, draw the line on, woodburn it lightly and use that channel for your checkering tool.
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Offline Turtle

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Re: Initial cutting for long incised lines
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2018, 03:05:10 AM »
 I made a tool to scribe a line as shown. Then I use a triangular file with the tip ground at an angle to make a cutting edge to enlarge it. I use it practically layed down in the groove as i go which keeps the line straight. I do this in several passes. I also put the actual file edge in the groove and file the wood after removing most of the wood to get a perfect job.

Offline Justin

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Re: Initial cutting for long incised lines
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2018, 03:31:08 AM »
The chisel and checkering tool worked well I think. I'll post some photos on Monday probably.

Offline davec2

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Re: Initial cutting for long incised lines
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2018, 04:37:19 AM »
A related series of posts

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=43530.msg425529#msg425529

Especially take a look at the two YouTube videos included
« Last Edit: January 14, 2018, 04:54:13 AM by davec2 »
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Offline PPatch

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Re: Initial cutting for long incised lines
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2018, 08:56:50 PM »
I pencil the line in, go over that with an exacto knife for a shallow cut, then use a V tool to deepen it. Sometimes I go back over it with a short length (1-1 1/4") of file to deepen and smooth the initial cutting. On the upper side if it curves toward the trigger guard I just do that by hand with an exacto knife cut and V tool.

dave

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Offline Marcruger

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Re: Initial cutting for long incised lines
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2018, 09:25:55 PM »
Very clean crisp work in those photos Taylor.  Reminds of when a wooden plane before covering.  One gets to see the "inner workings".  Thank you for posting those.  God Bless,   Marc

Offline Justin

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Re: Initial cutting for long incised lines
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2018, 09:26:47 PM »
Here are the lines on the butt stock:

Left side:


Right side:


Offline Scota4570

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Re: Initial cutting for long incised lines
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2018, 01:26:21 AM »
I used to do quite a bit of checkering.  I have that slant on this.  It is like cutting a border around a checkering panel.   For lines that follow the top of the barrel channel I use a scratch gauge type of tool.  For a line that is not parallel to something else I use Dymo label tape.  The tape is thick plastic and very rigid.  For gentle curve lines I use electrical tape.

I follow the edge of the tape with a single line checkering tool.  Store bought tools are fine.  I also make them with right and left hand safe sides.  I have some that are extra long to straighten wiggly lines.

I have very poor luck trying to cut lines with a V-gouge.  They come out wiggly and the depth is not consistent.  I am a perfectionist. 

Imperfect lines are not necessarily bad.  IF the overall look of the rifle is supposed to be 1780 folk art then perfect lines stand out. 

Offline dogcatcher

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Re: Initial cutting for long incised lines
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2018, 03:16:10 AM »
I used to do quite a bit of checkering.  I have that slant on this.  It is like cutting a border around a checkering panel.   For lines that follow the top of the barrel channel I use a scratch gauge type of tool.  For a line that is not parallel to something else I use Dymo label tape.  The tape is thick plastic and very rigid.  For gentle curve lines I use electrical tape.

I follow the edge of the tape with a single line checkering tool.  Store bought tools are fine.  I also make them with right and left hand safe sides.  I have some that are extra long to straighten wiggly lines.

I have very poor luck trying to cut lines with a V-gouge.  They come out wiggly and the depth is not consistent.  I am a perfectionist. 

Imperfect lines are not necessarily bad.  IF the overall look of the rifle is supposed to be 1780 folk art then perfect lines stand out.

I haven't used Dymo tape in awhile, thanks for the reminder.