Author Topic: Fur Trade Powder Horns  (Read 6648 times)

Offline iloco

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Fur Trade Powder Horns
« on: February 01, 2018, 05:21:37 PM »
I don't have a Bison Horn and was wondering if many of them were used in the Fur Trade time period.
 I have searched famous names and can not find any bison horns.
Anyone have information of famous fur trade people uisng a bison horn or pictures from museums.
 I am thinking one might go with my hawken rifles.
iloco

Offline Tim Crosby

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Re: Fur Trade Powder Horns
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2018, 06:44:56 PM »
 Grant's The Kentucky Rifle Hunting Pouch shows a couple on Pg 135.

 A Google search of St. Louis style powder horns will also give you some ideas.

   Tim C.

Offline iloco

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Re: Fur Trade Powder Horns
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2018, 06:59:34 PM »
Grant's The Kentucky Rifle Hunting Pouch shows a couple on Pg 135.

 A Google search of St. Louis style powder horns will also give you some ideas.

   Tim C.
Thanks Tim.  Found those in The Kentucky Rifle Hunting Pouch book.
 Scott Sibley use to post one ever now and then for sale.  Haven't seen much of him lately.
Guess I need to find a Bison Horn for my Hawken shooting bag.
iloco

Offline Clark Badgett

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Re: Fur Trade Powder Horns
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2018, 08:26:31 PM »
Fur trade powder horns were probably far more likely to be cow horn that buffalo horn. Those nice St Louis types were high end items and most definitely commanded premium prices. Most trade horns I've seen were quite plain
« Last Edit: February 01, 2018, 08:27:47 PM by Clark B »
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Offline rich pierce

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Re: Fur Trade Powder Horns
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2018, 09:22:03 PM »
Fur trade powder horns were probably far more likely to be cow horn that buffalo horn. Those nice St Louis types were high end items and most definitely commanded premium prices. Most trade horns I've seen were quite plain

But everybody loves foo-faraw!
Andover, Vermont

Offline prairieofthedog

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Re: Fur Trade Powder Horns
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2018, 09:29:59 PM »
Charles E. Hanson,shows several in his articles,sketchbooks.

Offline Clark Badgett

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Re: Fur Trade Powder Horns
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2018, 03:34:36 AM »
Fur trade powder horns were probably far more likely to be cow horn that buffalo horn. Those nice St Louis types were high end items and most definitely commanded premium prices. Most trade horns I've seen were quite plain

But everybody loves foo-faraw!

Oh I get it. Those St. Louis horns ARE something to behold. I do plan to try and make one someday. Already got the materials and a large Buff horn ready.
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Offline Gun Butcher

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Re: Fur Trade Powder Horns
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2018, 06:11:36 AM »
Buff horn is a bear to work and a little fragrant but take your time and they will pay you back. They are pretty when their finished.
If you check around on this forum you will see a few.
Ron
« Last Edit: February 03, 2018, 06:13:24 AM by Gun Butcher »
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Offline skillman

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Re: Fur Trade Powder Horns
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2018, 12:15:37 AM »
My opinion of "fur trade" horns is that they were simple, commercial, cow horns. If a trapper went in with a nice horn it would most likely get a lot of wear and abuse. I also believe the trapper had multiple horns and probably cached some so he could get to them in an emergency. Like many items of the trade these were tools. Guns, knives, bags, all were a necessity. He might have some fancy stuff but it would not be for normal wear and tear. I also think the horn would be separate from the pouch.

Steve
Steve Skillman

Pare Bowlegs

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Re: Fur Trade Powder Horns
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2018, 11:57:06 AM »
There were a few buffalo horns that trappers used, but I believe the majority were plain horns, as Skillman said. Some are described on inventory lists as "white powder horns" and were sold by the dozens at rendezvous. There's some good information on this link concerning goods sold at rendezvous, along with a link to paintings by Alfred Jacob Miller, who attended the 1837 rendezvous. Its a good idea to trust Miller's field sketches, as opposed to his paintings done at a later date, but the concept of clothing, accoutrements, etc. are still there.

http://www.mtmen.org/mtman/bizrecs.html
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Paintings_by_Alfred_Jacob_Miller_in_the_Walters_Art_Museum

This one is in the collection at the Missouri Historical Society. I don't recall it belonging to anyone famous though.


gif upload site

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Horner75

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Re: Fur Trade Powder Horns
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2018, 10:16:15 PM »
Way back in one of the Museum of the fur publications had a good article about buffalo powder horns , and  I believe Charles Hanson's books i.e. "The Hawken rifle...it's place in history", shows a buffalo powder horn used by Kit Carson and another by Mariano Madena.
 
I believe these horns are in a Colorado and/or a New Mexico museum....might google search them.

Rick

Offline Elnathan

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Re: Fur Trade Powder Horns
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2018, 02:41:24 AM »
IIRC, Powderhorns in the Southern Tradition has an example of a buffalo horn with engraving that was collected from the Blackfoot. Buffalo horns aren't all that common; Indian-engraved horns of any kind,  apart from Miq'maq/Penobscot horns, are as scarce as hen's teeth; I don't think I've run across a western engraved horn before, and here we have all three!
A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition -  Rudyard Kipling

Offline iloco

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Re: Fur Trade Powder Horns
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2018, 10:28:00 PM »
I have a copy of the Kit Carson rifle so I was curious if any of the fur trade people might have carried a Bison horn. Seems my question has been answered.
 I bought  a Bison horn and now waiting on a nice woven cotton strap for it.


It is 12 inches on the outside curve. Has a nice stopper and the end plug is carved as you can see.


iloco

Offline Clark Badgett

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Re: Fur Trade Powder Horns
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2018, 08:26:49 AM »
I think the term "Fur Trade" needs some clarification. There was the fur trade era, almost over by the time that the classic Hawken came into it's glory. The Hawken, from the most logical research seems to have been more of an early plains rifle, and Sam stated in an interview in his later years that he made lots for the gold rush. Besides all that, I would be perfectly willing to make an educated guess that a trade gun was more common than most rifles, they were literally made by the boat loads and imported and copied by most of the larger arms makers here. Mariano Medina's powder horn that is documented is cow horn or the straightest buff horn ever. The 1851 drawing of Edwin Denig's Hawken and horn illustrates a horn that is most definitely cow horn shaped. I've yet to find an illustration of any horn owned by Jim Bridger or Kit Carson. While I don't have numbers on how many of each type of original horns are extant, but from the looks of it there are lots more cow that buffalo, and I mean lots.

Now there is the term "For the trade" which were items made as economically as possible to be sold/traded to everyday men and natives. These are the items that the run of the mill frontiersman would have and put to hard usage, and they were normally plain as a plank.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2018, 08:29:14 AM by Clark B »
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Offline Pukka Bundook

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Re: Fur Trade Powder Horns
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2018, 06:15:15 PM »
If given a choice, I think most cow horns fit the hand better.  A buffalo has  a lot more taper and doesn't handle as well.  I have both, but never finish'd the buffalo horn because of this.
Nice thin one though, some bull horns are pretty near solid!

Offline Frank Barker

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Re: Fur Trade Powder Horns
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2018, 08:19:20 AM »
Iloco... In the 2017 May/June issue of Muzzleloader Magazine my friend Tim Albert did an extensive article titled "Those Mysterious St. Louis Buffalo Horns". He gives a nice history of them and has several photographs of some famous ones. He then goes into a rather detailed instruction on how to make one of your own. You might contact Muzzleloader Magazine and purchase a copy of the 2017 May/June issue or borrow one from one of your friends. I must say Tim Albert is a wonderful historian, an excellent craftsman and teacher.
Kind Regards
Frank Barker

Offline Clark Badgett

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Re: Fur Trade Powder Horns
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2018, 08:30:02 PM »
Frank, that is great article. Been slowly accumulating the supplies to make one of those St. Louis horns.
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Offline iloco

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Re: Fur Trade Powder Horns
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2018, 09:05:25 PM »
Iloco... In the 2017 May/June issue of Muzzleloader Magazine my friend Tim Albert did an extensive article titled "Those Mysterious St. Louis Buffalo Horns". He gives a nice history of them and has several photographs of some famous ones. He then goes into a rather detailed instruction on how to make one of your own. You might contact Muzzleloader Magazine and purchase a copy of the 2017 May/June issue or borrow one from one of your friends. I must say Tim Albert is a wonderful historian, an excellent craftsman and teacher.
Kind Regards
Frank Barker
I happen to have the Muzzleloader magazine.   Great article on the St Louis Horn.
iloco

Pare Bowlegs

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Re: Fur Trade Powder Horns
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2018, 12:38:58 AM »
I own a St. Louis powder horn made by Scott Sibley.



Offline iloco

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Re: Fur Trade Powder Horns
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2018, 12:41:17 AM »
Thats a fine looking horn. Scott makes a good horn.
iloco