Author Topic: Laying out a halfstock  (Read 2147 times)

Offline Roger B

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Laying out a halfstock
« on: February 23, 2018, 12:54:56 AM »
Hi guys;
Went to Jim Gordon's museum last weekend and took a stock pattern from one of his S. Hawkens.  Both my barrel & the original are roughly 1 1/8" tapering to around 1 1/16" in about 36" and now I need to lay the stock out, which I haven't had to do in years.  If I remember correctly, I want at least an 1/8" web between the barrel and ramrod channel.  How much should I try to leave between the bottom of the RR channel and the bottom of the forestock?  I think I need about 1/4" on the lock plate side and the same on the lock bolt side.  I'll leave plenty on the buttstock for the cheek piece.  I'm actually thinking about going with a 3/8" ramrod as opposed to 7/16" to get a slimmer forestock.  Anybody have any experience with something that thin on a .58?  I'm going to have David Rase inlet the tapered barrel and do the RR hole, so I don't want a mean noted from him telling me a laid it out wrong ;D.  Any information is appreciated.
Roger B.
Never underestimate the sheer destructive power of a minimally skilled, but highly motivated man with tools.

Offline smallpatch

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Re: Laying out a halfstock
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2018, 01:48:21 AM »
Dave will get you if you do it wrong Roger.
In His grip,

Dane

Offline Roger B

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Re: Laying out a halfstock
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2018, 01:56:36 AM »
Thanks, Dane.  You know I'm going to lose sleep over this, so give me some tips so I don't get bruised up.  BTW, you will once again be blessed with my presence in AZ in May.  Cardon Children's Hospital just offered me much more than I'm worth, so I'm moving back.  I'm bringing a wife this time.  I hope she doesn't wear out like the other ones did ;D.
Roger B.
Never underestimate the sheer destructive power of a minimally skilled, but highly motivated man with tools.

Offline Clark Badgett

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Re: Laying out a halfstock
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2018, 02:08:12 AM »
I have a 3/8" rammer on a 20 bore and to be honest I wish it was 7/16" but trade guns weren't seemingly made that way.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2018, 02:20:30 AM by Clark B »
Psalms 144

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Laying out a halfstock
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2018, 02:18:16 AM »
I’d ask Herb or Taylor.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Laying out a halfstock
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2018, 02:52:17 AM »
Hi guys;
Went to Jim Gordon's museum last weekend and took a stock pattern from one of his S. Hawkens.  Both my barrel & the original are roughly 1 1/8" tapering to around 1 1/16" in about 36" and now I need to lay the stock out, which I haven't had to do in years.  If I remember correctly, I want at least an 1/8" web between the barrel and ramrod channel.  How much should I try to leave between the bottom of the RR channel and the bottom of the forestock?  I think I need about 1/4" on the lock plate side and the same on the lock bolt side.  I'll leave plenty on the buttstock for the cheek piece.  I'm actually thinking about going with a 3/8" ramrod as opposed to 7/16" to get a slimmer forestock.  Anybody have any experience with something that thin on a .58?  I'm going to have David Rase inlet the tapered barrel and do the RR hole, so I don't want a mean noted from him telling me a laid it out wrong ;D.  Any information is appreciated.
Roger B.

I would think the thickness of the barrel rib would figure into the ram rod clearance
under the barrel. Also a lot of Hawken rifles,according to Tom Dawson had tapered
ram rods to clear the trigger bar.

Bob Roller

Offline Scota4570

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Re: Laying out a halfstock
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2018, 02:57:47 AM »
Why not use the tracing of the original as your preliminary outline and fudge it to the parts you have?

I recently finished one using Track plans, Stith plans, and a mis-mosh of parts.  It turned out pretty good.  Just very slow going, working form a plank.  Drawing the plans on a paper glued to the board helped me visualize it before I cut anything. It also gave a guide to follow.   

Offline Roger B

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Re: Laying out a halfstock
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2018, 04:24:20 AM »
Bob;
The original I copied had a tapered rod, though likely not original to the rifle.
Roger B.
Never underestimate the sheer destructive power of a minimally skilled, but highly motivated man with tools.

Offline smallpatch

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Re: Laying out a halfstock
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2018, 05:07:13 AM »
Roger,
IMHO, go with what's traditional.  I'm no expert on plains rifles, so I'll defer to the experts on what's traditional.
Good luck Sir.
In His grip,

Dane

Offline Herb

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Re: Laying out a halfstock
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2018, 08:14:01 AM »
Bob Roller got it right.  Your underrib sets the rod hole into the entry pipe.   The rib is about .230 thick.  Track's RP-HAWK-TE-7-I will probably be nearest correct and is  made only in 7/16".  Do not use their RP-HAWK-E-7-I (too much hump, but they make that one in 3/8" as well as 7/16). The skirt sets the belly line back to the trigger plate.  From the underrib groove to the top of the skirt is .650.  Add .230 to get .880 stock thickness below the barrel.  The trigger blades to the sear set the level of the trigger plate.  The Ron Long trigger plates do not need to be cut down.  If you use that trigger, a 1 1/8" barrel will have a stock depth of about 2.1 from the front of the trigger guard to the top of the tang behind the snail, at least my copy of the Bridger Hawken does.  The stock belly is a straight line from the plate to the entry pipe skirt, no fish belly.  My Bridger stock depth is 2.030" on the tail of the skirt. The Bridger and Carson Hawkens and the "Robidoux" Hawken in Lincoln, NE and the S. Hawken in Cheyenne all have 1/2" ram rods.   The Bridger entry pipe is .510 inside diameter, but the rod as measured by GRRW in 1975 is .500 front and .270 rear, inside the stock.  Who knows if that rod is original to the rifle.  The Carson rod is similar.  It may be they tapered it to fit a "spring" tow worm on the end for cleaning.  I doubt the hole is tapered.   

Your lock panels are as thick as the bolster of the lock.  But this heavy barrel needs tapered panels, wider across the front than at the tails.  The Bridger Hawken has the lock plate bent in at the tail.  Better to file the bolster.  Carl Walker of the GRRW told me today he files about 1/16" off the back end of the bolster to get this taper.  I think I do about  .040.  This narrows the lock panels at the wrist for a slimmer stock.  My Bridger copy is 1.75" wide at the front of the panels and 1.57" at the tails.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2018, 08:28:40 AM by Herb »
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Offline Roger B

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Re: Laying out a halfstock
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2018, 08:49:56 PM »
Thanks guys, I appreciate the help.  Herb, on my first Hawken from a blank I had a local welder put a dab or two of weld on the front lock of the bolster and then filed it down where I wanted it to get the flair at the front.  I can't remember why I didn't just file the back of the  bolster down except to say that I might have been afraid of fouling up the Roller lock plate.  I also inspected the bottom of the under rib with magnification and couldn't find any evidence of riveting or screwing.  Of course they could have been good enough to completely hide it.
Roger B.
Never underestimate the sheer destructive power of a minimally skilled, but highly motivated man with tools.

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Laying out a halfstock
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2018, 09:04:35 PM »
I concur with Herb's data.  The smallest rod I've installed on a Hawken rifle is 7/16" tapering to 3.8" at the inside tip.  Most are 1/2".  I use the rod pipes to guide my drill for drilling the rod hole, so it is parallel to the bottom of the barrel.  Use a proper milled ramrod drill to cut the hole.  A twist drill, especially a brad point drill, will wander and come out where you don't want it...ask me how I know this!  Herb is on the money.
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Offline Herb

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Re: Laying out a halfstock
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2018, 09:18:42 PM »
Roger, some Hawken ribs were soldered on.  Which of Gordon's Hawkens are you copying? I have photos of his rack of Hawkens.
Here is the Bridger Hawken on the bottom and my copy at the top, showing the entry pipe area.

My copy at the top and the Bridger on the bottom.  Note the tapered lock panels, narrower at the wrist.  See the bend in the Bridger lock plate under the hammer?

A life sized photo of the Kit Carson Hawken with the Ron Long double set trigger aligned with it.  Note that the front of the trigger plate has to be bent down to stock contour.

« Last Edit: March 19, 2020, 08:35:46 PM by Herb »
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