Author Topic: Percussion caps (Read 3034 times)

Pukka Bundook · « **on:** March 02, 2018, 10:57:10 PM »

Gentlemen,

Is there a source for percussion caps that fall between the normal # 11 and the military musket cap?
I am working on a "Central fire" percussion sporting gun. It has nipples larger than the #11 caps, and smaller than the musket type.
Thought I could get away with making musket style nipples but shorter, but the replaceable strikers on the hammers catch these wide nipples, and so need to go smaller.
The original nipples are past use.
I used to be able to get Eley (Joyce) No 26 caps, and they are Much easier to handle and a bit larger than these runty sawn off short # 11's.

Any ideas gents??.............I don not wish to make nipples for unobtainable caps. :-)

Daryl · « **Reply #1 on:** March 02, 2018, 11:00:52 PM »

Used to be able to get Remington #12's. I've not seen them for a while. The QC was not good as the fulminate would fall out of some of them in the tin.

Of course, with Remington filing bankruptcy - who knows?

Bob Roller · « **Reply #2 on:** March 03, 2018, 02:38:20 AM »

Quote from: Daryl on March 02, 2018, 11:00:52 PM

Used to be able to get Remington #12's. I've not seen them for a while. The QC was not good as the fulminate would fall out of some of them in the tin.

Of course, with Remington filing bankruptcy - who knows?

I still have 2 unopened tins of Remington #12 caps I bought from E.M.Farris in 1964.
I wonder if they will still fire.Also saw some caps with the Winchester label of recent
manufacture. RWS may be the last resort for caps but there may be others from
Italy.

Bob Roller

Pukka Bundook · « **Reply #3 on:** March 03, 2018, 05:41:21 AM »

Bob,

I'm sure your old caps will still work. I have some that were my G-G-grandfather, and look beautiful quality compered to what we get now. They still work but want to keep them, and they're likely mercury primed.
They are definitely first time 'round ones, not re-runs.
He'd made a small hole in the lid of the tin, (held 250) and a cap could be shook out as needed. Was told he carried the tin in his weskit pocket.

Do CCI still make caps?

I wondered about RWS, if they had any different sizes. Used to get Berdan primers from them eons ago.

ScottH · « **Reply #4 on:** March 03, 2018, 06:04:48 AM »

CCI still makes #10 and #11 regular and magnum. They also make "reenactor" musket caps.
RWS makes #1075+ caps that are just slightly smaller than a CCI 11. At least that is what is available to us in eastern WA.
I found 200 RWS musket caps without the perpendicular wings of normal musket caps and bought them, wish I could find more but doubt I will. RWS Currently offers the musket cap it is #1081

Pukka Bundook · « **Reply #5 on:** March 03, 2018, 08:45:46 AM »

Thanks for the info Scott.

It sounds like those small RWS would be ideal for my Tranter revolver. As it is, I have to size No 11's down a bit to fit!

Had another Tranter and got new nipples from Dixie, and no caps made fit those nipples either, LOL! (I tinned them with solder , just a bit and shook it off and Then the caps stayed on.)

I'll just turn these nipples down for the # 11 caps and see how it goes.

A pic. of the gun as it arrived;

It does have both hammers, by the way.

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #6 on:** March 04, 2018, 04:25:08 AM »

Richard, before you lay that fine old beast against the grinder, tell me the diameter of the nipples. I have a nice supply of musket caps that are like our rifle caps...no wings. I'll measure the inside dia. and let you know.

Pukka Bundook · « **Reply #7 on:** March 04, 2018, 07:16:00 AM »

Taylor,

Firstly to alay your fears, I would not touch these original nipples, even though they are distorted and burned out. The ones I would be grinding down are some I just made for the normal musket cap. The latter are a bit too wide, and catch on the shield of the removable striker.

Thank you for your very kind offer to measure the ID of the caps you have. I will get at it ASAP.

Thanks again,

Richard.

Bob Roller · « **Reply #8 on:** March 05, 2018, 12:14:08 AM »

Quote from: ScottH on March 03, 2018, 06:04:48 AM

CCI still makes #10 and #11 regular and magnum. They also make "reenactor" musket caps.
RWS makes #1075+ caps that are just slightly smaller than a CCI 11. At least that is what is available to us in eastern WA.
I found 200 RWS musket caps without the perpendicular wings of normal musket caps and bought them, wish I could find more but doubt I will. RWS Currently offers the musket cap it is #1081

Reeactor caps?? I suppose the sense a projectile above the charge and won't fire??

Bob Roller

Daryl · « **Reply #9 on:** March 06, 2018, 09:45:25 PM »

Rickard - I measure the caps Taylor spoke of, at .222" at the fulminate and .238 at the top of the opening. They are split, so will open, but the important measurement is at the fulminate.

ScottH · « **Reply #10 on:** March 07, 2018, 03:26:14 AM »

Bob Roller,
LOL good one!
Actually I have never attempted to use the CCI musket caps labeled "reenactor" caps but have heard that when they first came out they were under powered and not reliable in igniting a charge of black powder. Not something any of us would want to experience in the field hunting. Also the RWS #1081 musket caps are readily available in my area most of the time and they are hot and extremely reliable, so I keep some on hand.

Richard,
Those nipples shown in the photo you posted of the double sure look like they would be very close to using the "flangeless" musket caps that I have made by RWS. Unfortunately I have no idea if RWS still produces them. Bob Roller's acquaintances in Germany could find out though I bet.
I'm going to measure them like Daryl did and post the findings but I bet they will be the same as other musket caps.
Scott

ScottH · « **Reply #11 on:** March 07, 2018, 05:35:53 AM »

My RWS musket caps measure with my caliper at .218 to .219 at the fulminant in side , that is both styles.

Pukka Bundook · « **Reply #12 on:** March 07, 2018, 05:42:28 PM »

Thank you for the measurements, both Daryl & Scott. I Will get at measuring the nipples today, but they are well under musket size.

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #13 on:** March 08, 2018, 09:46:37 PM »

Richard: I was just looking at the images you posted, and remarked that those nipples are set at a very low angle, like rebounding hammer double guns firing pins. I know it is a percussion gun, but wonder about blow-back from those nipples. Wear protective glasses when you touch it off.

Chowmi · « **Reply #14 on:** March 08, 2018, 09:53:54 PM »

I have used the re-enactor caps on my Italian made Springfield CW musket.
They do actually work, even after sensing the presence of a Minie Ball!

Pukka Bundook · « **Reply #15 on:** March 08, 2018, 11:52:56 PM »

Taylor,

Sorry I have not got these nipples measured yet, "Stuff" keeps getting in the way.

Angles of nipples;
Yes, indeed looking back over.
This arrangement was usually made by Sam'l & Chas Smith, and were normally high end in quality And price!
The fences curl around the hammers, which also have a built -in shield on the striker, so we can say they tried!

The original caps were called "Imperial caps" and were a bit like a sombrero. Different nipples could be fitted for normal caps as well.
This one is marked "Winton, " Tiverton, (Devon.) but that will be the retailer.
It's a late gun really, with proofs for 1855-68.
The guns with this form of percussioning were called "Central fire, and this one has "Improved Central Fire" on the top rib.

I don't normally wear any shooting glasses, but I will with this one, at least until I see what transpires!

Thank you for the concern and warning Taylor, Very good of you.

Richard.

Pukka Bundook · « **Reply #16 on:** March 09, 2018, 07:12:24 AM »

Finally got those nipples measured;

Very little taper, and measure .180" -.182" or so at the top. (Some bruising, but this is about as close as I can tell)

This appears about half way between no 11's and musket caps.

Thanks for the interest all,

Richard.

Pukka Bundook · « **Reply #17 on:** April 01, 2018, 07:52:52 AM »

Update for Taylor,

I turned the newly made nipples down for No 11 caps, & tried this gun out, wore shooting specs , and no issues with anything flying about on ignition. Very well behaved it was.
Nice patterns as well, but need to try it at 40 yards.

Richard.

Daryl · « **Reply #18 on:** April 01, 2018, 09:50:35 PM »

Good stuff, Richard. I-too was concerned about the angles.

Pukka Bundook · « **Reply #19 on:** April 02, 2018, 06:14:44 AM »

Daryl,

With other original percussion guns I have had the cap debris hit my arms (pretty hard at times), this is one of the first that does not spit.
Now, when I first made these nipples, I had the tops wide for musket caps, as the mainsprings are strong, and thought the heavier nipple would stand up better.
When I tried it, Man that Hurt! The hammer shrouds (Not exactly a hammer cup in this case) bound on the back of the cap, and though it fired it, sheets of flame and hot suff was fired forwards and burned my left arm and wrist, as it was Pulling the cap half off the nipple on detonation.

I tried it a few times with alterations and it still bit me. When I turned the nipples down for # 11's all the flame went down the hatch and I got nothing. Same with live fire, V nice and no spits at all.
I suppose these locks, made for "Imperial" caps, were some of the latest styles made, in the 50's and 60's, so they should have known what they were doing by then.
If you ever get down here you can try it out.

Also, it's very nice that if you shine a light in the nipples and look down the barrel, you see the dot of light right in the middle of the bore. A true :Central fire" like they claim! ...No corners for the spark to go around! Brilliant really.. Closer to a revolver than most percussion shotguns.

ATB,

Richard.

Daryl · « **Reply #20 on:** April 03, 2018, 08:03:30 PM »

That's amazing, but the fences do appear to be 'proper'. The original nipples, having a small hole at the top, appear to be wrong to me, seemingly promoting cap flash rebound.

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Author Topic: Percussion caps (Read 3034 times)