Author Topic: Daryl is right.....yet again. Loading method.  (Read 8204 times)

Offline Marcruger

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Daryl is right.....yet again. Loading method.
« on: March 19, 2018, 12:28:05 AM »
Yep, experience counts for something.  Daryl was correct in his loading method. 

I was taught by a target shooter to always wipe with a damp, then dry patch between shots at the range.  I'd get about five shots, then get a crud ring in front of the seated ball.  Cleanup at the end of the day was often a chore. 

Yesterday I went to the range with a fellow who wanted to get his gorgeous new .45 Bob Hill rifle shooting.  He's an experienced shooter, and a great guy, just new to flinters.  I advised him to try Daryl's method of wet patching and not wiping. 

It worked!  Like a charm.  The last load went down as easy as the first.  Using Hoppe's BP lube, the Minute Men .018 patching, and 60 grains of 3f.  No burn-throughs and minor scorching. Clean up was a breeze. 

It makes sense.  If you wipe between shots, you are cramming the crud down to the breech, loading powder on top, and setting it off.  That crud will be burned onto the breech and begin to build up. 

I realized that Daryl's method makes perfect sense.  Pour in the powder, wet the patch, seat the ball, and run it down.  The crud is in between the powder and the patch/ball.  It has nowhere to go but out of the barrel.  I should have done this long ago. 

I forgot to try Daryl's method of firing the last round as a light-load though.  That would have made things even better I am sure.  Less crud from the last shot. 

Credit where credit is due.  Thank you Daryl!

God Bless, and best wishes,   Marc

Offline Maven

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Re: Daryl is right.....yet again. Loading method.
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2018, 03:09:32 AM »
Yep, Wet, i.e., just shy of dripping, patches work just as Daryl (and Taylor!) said they do in my rifles and smoothies.  I use both 1 Ballistol : 6 water in the rifles and Taylor's secret recipe in my smoothbores and really don't have to wipe the bore at all (20 - 25 shots) and there's no degradation of accuracy either.  Both Daryl & Taylor unfailingly give good advice! 8)
Paul W. Brasky

Offline retired fella

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Re: Daryl is right.....yet again. Loading method.
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2018, 06:06:11 AM »
I have been shooting for years and never had a problem with crud on the breach plug.  The difficulty I have is a crud ring that will not allow me to fully seat the ball after about 5 shots and have to wet patch to dispose of it.  I do spit patch sopping wet.  I am open to suggestions.  Would using a lube prevent this?

Offline OldMtnMan

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Re: Daryl is right.....yet again. Loading method.
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2018, 05:08:18 PM »
That works for target shooting. Not for hunting. You can't put a wet patch on top of the powder and leave it there all day.

I've done that for years for target shooting, but not when working up a hunting load or hunting. I use Mink Oil for that.

Offline WadePatton

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Re: Daryl is right.....yet again. Loading method.
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2018, 05:21:33 PM »
That works for target shooting. Not for hunting. You can't put a wet patch on top of the powder and leave it there all day.

I've done that for years for target shooting, but not when working up a hunting load or hunting. I use Mink Oil for that.

Hunting (as I do it) doesn't require 20 shots a day.  So loading differently then makes sense, just not loosely.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 06:01:53 PM by WadePatton »
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Offline OldMtnMan

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Re: Daryl is right.....yet again. Loading method.
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2018, 06:43:05 PM »
That works for target shooting. Not for hunting. You can't put a wet patch on top of the powder and leave it there all day.

I've done that for years for target shooting, but not when working up a hunting load or hunting. I use Mink Oil for that.

Hunting (as I do it) doesn't require 20 shots a day.  So loading differently then makes sense, just not loosely.

Me too for big game. The only time i'll take a lot of shots while hunting is for coyotes.

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Daryl is right.....yet again. Loading method.
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2018, 07:52:26 PM »
Well that a lot fellas.  Now none of my hats will fit.

Shooting muzzleloaders is different things to different folks.  When I go out the shoot, I like to shoot - not clean.  A significant patch will carry enough lube, either spit, oil, or whatever, to clean ALL the fowling in the bore down to the powder charge every time you load, if your ball is .005" to .010" smaller than the bore diameter, all day long.  I like simple.
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline Daryl

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Re: Daryl is right.....yet again. Loading method.
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2018, 09:30:03 PM »
Thanks guys.  I give all credit to Ned Robert's lessons, given so freely and completely in his book "The Muzzle Loading Cap Lock Rifle".  I bought and read the book over
and over from 1972 through 1980 - wherein he states "as the Duchman says,  Ven you loads der next vun, you cleans der last vun". He also stated that you should be
able to shoot all day without having to wipe or clean the bore at any time.
 I took Ned at his word, and experimented, with dear friend Les Hawk's help, and it still took a couple years of experimentation, back in the early 70's,  but accomplish
that we did and are most happy to share what we've learned. I fully realize many people do not want to get 'that' involved with the intricacies of the game, however for
those who do, we are most happy to help in any way we can.
It is very rewarding to hear from our new friends who have tried and found the methods do indeed work & have found new joy in shooting these remarkable guns. 
Thanks again.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Standing Bear

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Re: Daryl is right.....yet again. Loading method.
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2018, 10:41:37 PM »
I tried Daryl’s wet patch about a year ago and now use it all the time.  Retired, it may be that you are only using half of Daryl’s formula, the other is a tight ball and patch combination. I use a .395 ball and denim that measures .024 in my .40 Douglas barrel and a .355 w the same patch in a .36 GM barrel. Yes it has to be popped in with the nubbin on a short starter but then I can use a rod to finish loading.

Oh and wet patch not damp but not dripping.
Good luck
TC

PS Hunting deer or other big game I use ToW mink oil.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 10:45:02 PM by Standing Bear »
Nothing is hard if you have the right equipment and know how to use it.  OR have friends who have both.

http://texasyouthhunting.com/

Offline WadePatton

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Re: Daryl is right.....yet again. Loading method.
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2018, 11:10:59 PM »
Thanks guys.  I give all credit to Ned Robert's lessons, given so freely and completely in his book "The Muzzle Loading Cap Lock Rifle".  I bought and read the book over
...

I got my best learning from your sharing of your experiences big D.  Then by applying "your" techniques. 



and I pitched Fadala's book into the woodstove...  :o  sorry Sam.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 11:12:44 PM by WadePatton »
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Offline hanshi

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Re: Daryl is right.....yet again. Loading method.
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2018, 01:39:10 AM »
I've been doing that for a good while and indeed it does work as advertised.
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

Offline Justin Urbantas

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Re: Daryl is right.....yet again. Loading method.
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2018, 02:35:37 AM »
I like this idea. What is a good mix for patch lube (available in BC)?

Offline Nessmuck

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Re: Daryl is right.....yet again. Loading method.
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2018, 03:37:55 AM »
Are you using "Moose Milk " for soaking the patch ?

Offline Frank

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Re: Daryl is right.....yet again. Loading method.
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2018, 04:05:35 AM »
I like this idea. What is a good mix for patch lube (available in BC)?

Spit.  :)

Offline Daryl

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Re: Daryl is right.....yet again. Loading method.
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2018, 05:16:19 AM »
Absolutely, spit works for target shooting as it works as well as anything else that I've found.
Some guys and gals can muster up enough while some as we age, cannot and must improvise.

Our improvisation was in part, accompanied with a need for our lube to resist freezing, thus we
tended towards Blue Thunder Winter Windshield Washer Fluid, now known here as WWWF.

As when making up a batch of this stuff, a 'batch' (US gallon) usually lasts a year or more, so to
the WWWF, we add 'some' Neetsfoot oil. Due to the oil falling out of suspension, before adding
it to the pre-cut patches, I shake the container (usually form a quart container) then pour the 'lube'
over the patches in the Sucrets tin, or plastic bullet box or plastic candy tin, which I found some where.
 
Once the patches have soaked up lube completely, I turn the tin on it's side and gently squeeze the
stacks of patches with a finger or thumb and pour the excess lube back into the container. The oil content
for me, is simply to reduce the rate of evapouration and to add a little lube to the mix as is does evapourate
somewhat at Hefley when it's over 100F.  It is not always that hot there, but sometimes is.

So - yes - whether WWWF+ oil, or spit, when I or Taylor used to smack the ball into the muzzle with the (we're
more gentle now) flat end of the starter ball, if someone is/was standing close, they might be hit with a bit of slash.
Yes- the patches are wet but only splash if smacked down hard into the muzzle.  There is no splash if pushing them
straight into the muzzle with the little stud on the starter, or punching it into the bore with a smack, and the stud
on the ball.  'Accurate' use of the stud will ensure the ball is started straight into the muzzle - with equal pressure
all the way around.

Ball starters with little studs. The antlers are deer and moose.



how to upload images to the internet
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Justin Urbantas

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Re: Daryl is right.....yet again. Loading method.
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2018, 05:44:47 AM »
I'll give it a try next time I break out the rifle. We're planning on going to Heffley for the black powder spring fling and rendezvous (if it's not on fire in August.) Always learning new stuff

Offline Nessmuck

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Re: Daryl is right.....yet again. Loading method.
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2018, 06:17:13 AM »
So.....when loading a shot load.....do you push the first card all the way down on the powder.....or only push it down 6 inches or so....then shot..card..soaked oil fiber wad,and ram it all down at once ?

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Daryl is right.....yet again. Loading method.
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2018, 03:46:50 PM »
Several years ago while at Friendship I was at my usual spot,the 500 yard range.
I watched a man loading a 500 grain bullet and he placed a patch over the muzzle
before pushing the bullet down.I asked him about this and he said it was the John Rigby
method of loading that evaded a rule that said no cleaning between shots in 10 shot
matches.He was not evading anything but it was an interesting way to load and the patch
was withdrawn when he pulled to rod out.This can be used with a round ball as well with
a damp patch.
Bob Roller

Offline Daryl

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Re: Daryl is right.....yet again. Loading method.
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2018, 11:51:55 PM »
So.....when loading a shot load.....do you push the first card all the way down on the powder.....or only push it down 6 inches or so....then shot..card..soaked oil fiber wad,and ram it all down at once ?

I dump in the powder charge,  then shove my OP (lubed) fiber wad into the muzzle & ram it home onto the powder. I then pour shot, then put a single "B" wad into the muzzle and ram that down.

If I was hunting, I would load powder, then 1/8" hard card wad - down onto the powder, then lubed fiber wad, then 1/8" card down onto the fiber wad, then pour shot, then Over Shot wad onto shot. Every time I seat a wad, you can hear air rushing out the vent.  Periodically over the years, one should close the frizzen while seating wads to see if you are blowing powder out the vent causing an auto prime - or, if frizzen is open, losing powder out the vent as it is oversize. If you lose powder out the vent, it will not be the same each time and your load varies every time you shoot.

With a rifle, it is loss of accuracy, with a shotgun, you are losing power or pattern or both.

Loading this way - seating each item every time, makes it impossible to short start a load, btw - just had that thought.

The total time loading is likely between 20 & 35 seconds or so.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Nessmuck

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Re: Daryl is right.....yet again. Loading method.
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2018, 04:35:38 AM »
That's a little different than the Sky Cheif load...

m1garand_man

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Re: Daryl is right.....yet again. Loading method.
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2018, 08:28:53 PM »
I misunderstood the first post and then was left wondering if my initial interpretation might be worth trying. Here goes

What if you ram the lubed and patched ball with a jag that also has a damp patch on it. This way upon loading the wet patch goes down and comes back out thereby softening the fouling but the wet patch doesn't remain in the bore after the rammer is retracted. I may try this this weekend to see if I can save time over swabing and wiping.

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Daryl is right.....yet again. Loading method.
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2018, 08:31:53 PM »
I dought if there will be much fouling for your wet patch to pic up with a lubed patched ball below it.

Offline heelerau

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Re: Daryl is right.....yet again. Loading method.
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2018, 11:12:19 PM »
I have been shooting for years and never had a problem with crud on the breach plug.  The difficulty I have is a crud ring that will not allow me to fully seat the ball after about 5 shots and have to wet patch to dispose of it.  I do spit patch sopping wet.  I am open to suggestions.  Would using a lube prevent this?
   I had that trouble to for a short while, found it was caused for me anyway by using mineral oil to coat the bore after cleaning. I now use after water, then dry patches, a good squirt of WD40 or some such dewatering oil, then I wipe it out and run  wool mop soaked in sweet oil ( virgin olive oil) lo no more crud ring down near the breech  !!
Keep yor  hoss well shod an' yor powdah dry !

Offline Daryl

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Re: Daryl is right.....yet again. Loading method.
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2018, 07:02:29 AM »
I misunderstood the first post and then was left wondering if my initial interpretation might be worth trying. Here goes

What if you ram the lubed and patched ball with a jag that also has a damp patch on it. This way upon loading the wet patch goes down and comes back out thereby softening the fouling but the wet patch doesn't remain in the bore after the rammer is retracted. I may try this this weekend to see if I can save time over swabing and wiping.

When I shove a patched ball down the bore, any fouling in the bore is shoved down with it. Were this not the case, there would be a fouling buildup - there is not.

I do not swab or wipe ever - while I am shooting.  I go to shoot, not clean my rifle. I clean the gun after all the shooting is done for the day and I've cracked or snapped the cap from a can of beer.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

m1garand_man

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Re: Daryl is right.....yet again. Loading method.
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2018, 01:58:36 PM »
Well this makes sense too.

My biggest issue so far has been store bought patches which aren't lubed enough to keep things soft enough.