Author Topic: Question for the pouch makers  (Read 1255 times)

Offline Martin S.

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Question for the pouch makers
« on: April 17, 2018, 11:19:01 PM »
I have lots of deer hides that I can use to make possibles bags.

I also have some vegetable tanned leather, which seems to be used by T. C. Albert.  I have his book and it is quite good.

Another well known maker used pigskin, I think, in his video.  I don't have any pigskin, but I like his video.

I think the deerskin would look more authentic, but I am no expert.  I am worried it might be a little to "soft" for a bag, for lack of a better term.

Also, if I make it from deerskin, do I use a deerskin strap as well?  I think the veggie tanned strap would be sturdier, but I worry it won't "match" the bag.

I am not looking to go into business, but would like to make 3-4 bags, one for each rifle I anticipate owning.

I would be interested in hearing from other bag makers regarding types of leather they use, and their suitability for bags.

Thank you,

Martin


Offline Jerry V Lape

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Re: Question for the pouch makers
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2018, 12:02:47 AM »
From what I have seen on this site of bags for sale it appears just about anything can be used.  Including just the cloth ticking, groundhog hide, etc.  You need to design for what you have to use.  Soft deer hide is going to most likely be a little limp if you use it for the whole bag.  Might want some veg tanned for the body so  the bag retains its shape a bit.  All deer skin might wind up looking like a sock hanging on the end of the strap.  But the flap made of deer skin would probably be fine.  Have seen straps made of rope, string, woven hemp, leather so anything you want to use is probably good.  Just engineer it a bit to help it fulfill it's role.  Make one and then after you use it a bit make the adjustments you find necessary on the second one.   

Offline James Rogers

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Re: Question for the pouch makers
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2018, 12:15:45 AM »
Martin, do you have any desire for anything historical or is function your only objective?

Offline Martin S.

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Re: Question for the pouch makers
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2018, 12:29:56 AM »
I would prefer to be historically accurate, but I also want a bag that is functional to be used.

Offline James Rogers

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Re: Question for the pouch makers
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2018, 01:45:03 AM »
I would prefer to be historically accurate, but I also want a bag that is functional to be used.

If your deerskin is of modern chromium tannage I would choose some vegetable tanned for sure.

Offline Martin S.

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Re: Question for the pouch makers
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2018, 03:29:49 AM »
The deerskin was tanned by the Uber glove tannery in MN.

I don't know what they used.

I gather it might not be historically correct, I know it is not brain tanned.

Can you really tell by looking?  Does the tanning method affect the way it takes dye?

What is the problem with chromium tanning?

Can I use it for clothing, if not for bags?

I hope I didn't waste a lot of money, I have been sending them deer hides for lots of years.

Offline longcruise

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Re: Question for the pouch makers
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2018, 04:09:04 AM »
I made one many years ago from deer hide because it was all I had.  Far from historically correct and not very useful but it got used :) it's still getting used by the grandkids.

The bags I made thereafter were based on TC's patterns and later some of my own patterns.  You can't go wrong doing one of TC's bags just as the book describes.
Mike Lee

Offline James Rogers

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Re: Question for the pouch makers
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2018, 04:38:41 AM »
Most likely  what you have is  a modern chrome tannage not available until 1860s or later as chromium tanning was being developed in the 1850's IIRC.
Some people take to sanding off the grain side and dying it to resemble brain tan from a squinted distance. You could probably make a lined bag from it to give it some body as it has a ultra soft temper.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2018, 04:39:33 AM by James Rogers »

Offline Martin S.

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Re: Question for the pouch makers
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2018, 04:47:03 AM »
OK, thanks for all the information.

I'll stick with the veggie tanned, but dye it so it does not look it came out of the Tandy catalog.


Offline Curt Lyles

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Re: Question for the pouch makers
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2018, 05:52:42 AM »
Martin
  Bark tan might be  what  you are looking for as it works nice looks good and if it is tanned ,strecthed  and stained right you cant go wrong.But it has it draw backs ,you have to go out and kill,skin,scrape, tan,and stretch a deer or other critter before you can start making a pouch.or you can buy it or buy veg tan cow hide which is very acceptable also.
  Pouch making is habit forming just  like anything else that we do,so dont be afraid to try it.







« Last Edit: April 18, 2018, 06:00:49 AM by Curt Lyles »

Offline Iktomi

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Re: Question for the pouch makers
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2018, 04:47:30 PM »
I imagine back in the day folks just used what they had to hand, and made do. It's likely the best examples made by professional leather workers and owned by the more well-heeled that survived to this day in most cases. Using what you have and making something that works well from it is "traditional" in a very real sense.
Rick Tatum
Santa Rosa, CA

Offline Dale Halterman

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Re: Question for the pouch makers
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2018, 06:03:33 PM »
I went to Uber's website and they describe using chromium salts in the tanning process, so I think you have your answer.

Dale H

Online g.pennell

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Re: Question for the pouch makers
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2018, 09:21:39 PM »
Curt, those are some good lookin’ rigs...did you make the knives too?

Greg
“Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks” Thomas Jefferson

Offline Martin S.

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Re: Question for the pouch makers
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2018, 10:42:53 PM »
Thanks, Dale, I should have thought to do that.

Curt, what kind of animal skin is your bark tan made from?

If I were to get some bark tanned deerskin, would it be stiffer?

Do you have any good sources for bark tanned leather?

Online rich pierce

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Re: Question for the pouch makers
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2018, 11:13:42 PM »
Curt, is that one of your deer neck pouches?
St. Louis, Missouri

Offline Frank Barker

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Re: Question for the pouch makers
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2018, 12:18:59 AM »
Martin...... I have made a couple of bags and I have used several different kinds of leather. The deer skins you have are just fine for pouches and they can be dyed any color you like. If you are concerned that the deer is to pliable, line it with some kind of cloth to stiffen it up a little. Use barge cement and glue your hide to what ever cloth you chose and cut out your pattern after the glue is dried. I like to use 2-3 oz vegetable tanned tooling leather. I usually purchase it from Tandy Leather. Don't buy their first grade leather, they sell seconds that usually can be bought for around $50 per side and you can make lots of bags out of a side of leather. I have made bags out of pigskin and it does very well. You can incorporate pig and cow and deer together in your design, just depending on what you have in mind.

My suggestion is to look and examine lots of pouches and decide what you like. You have a good start with Tim Albert's book, he is very informative and a good teacher. He is usually ready to give you advice and will help you out anyway he can. You are only limited by your imagination. I suggest that if you use a buckle on your straps for adjustment, hand forged ones look very nice.

Kind Regards
Frank Barker


Offline Curt Lyles

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Re: Question for the pouch makers
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2018, 12:55:48 AM »
Greg,
Yes, I did make the knife.

Martin,
The second and third picture is a pouch made from a bark tanned, cased deer neck.  The bark tanned deer skin is just fine for making bags.  It's a lot stiffer than brained tanned.  Also, a hide from a mature buck is a lot thicker and stiffer than one from a younger deer.  The younger hides are still definitely worth tanning.  If your hides are too thin, they can be lined with hemp, fustion or feed sack material ( a lot more work, but it does add a very interesting look to a pouch.)  I do have deer hides on hand if you are interested.

The top and bottom pouches shown above (1st and 4th pictures) are made from bark tanned groundhog hides. 

The pouches below are groundhogs and deerhides, also.





























« Last Edit: April 19, 2018, 01:00:27 AM by Curt Lyles »

Offline thecapgunkid

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Re: Question for the pouch makers
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2018, 11:53:51 AM »
Some good advice here.   One thing to consider is not to pre-judge before you start a project.

There's a lot of mis-conception out there stating that, in order to look authentic, your project has to look worn.  I always viewed that as inconsistent with the budget and needs of a woodsman running around in the 18th century where materials came dear.  I could never imagine an aspiring rifleman walking into Beck or Dickerts or a Christians Spring shop and saying something like..."  Oh yeah, make it look beat up.  I'll pay extra for that...".

Center your project around function first.  When I made this smoothbore for my grandchildren I built the bag around the use of cartridges, so cowhide was fine...



Sometimes all you need to do is buy leather at an event, where sutlers are running around carrying the discards from factories.

When making a bag out of deerskin, I always looked for imperfect hides, dyed them and cured the limp problem by lining them with heavy grade canvas.





The best bag I ever made, and the one that has gone everywhere with me, was one of the first, back in 1981.  I was plain buffed suede, without factory shine.  Over the years it developed a patina and taught me that, if you are thinking like an eighteenth century craftsman where materials came dear, your improvisation was just as valuable as your material selection.




When you buy, look for integrity in the leather hide first.  A good seconds product will go a long way in helping you hit the goal you are looking for and can visualize what you want before you whip out the tools and patterns.

Hope this helps,

Capgun

Offline Treebeard

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Re: Question for the pouch makers
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2018, 07:34:08 AM »
I made one many years ago from deer hide because it was all I had.  Far from historically correct and not very useful but it got used :) it's still getting used by the grandkids.

The bags I made thereafter were based on TC's patterns and later some of my own patterns.  You can't go wrong doing one of TC's bags just as the book describes.

What is full name and book title for TC patterns and book— I would like to look up.

Online g.pennell

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Re: Question for the pouch makers
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2018, 02:55:27 PM »
Tree beard, it’s “Recreating the 18th Century Hunting Pouch”, by T.C. Albert.  It’s available from any of the suppliers, and well worth the price.  It’s very well written and illustrated, and there are quite a few full sized patterns in the last section of the book. I’m working my way through the patterns right now!

Greg

« Last Edit: April 27, 2018, 05:50:15 PM by g.pennell »
“Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks” Thomas Jefferson

Offline Marcruger

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Re: Question for the pouch makers
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2018, 03:18:09 PM »
I agree with what is stated above regarding deerhide.  It is very stretchy, at least what I have here.  It is super for rolled edges with no wrinkles. 

For the deerskin body of the bag, I'd contact cement it to a cowhide suede lining or similar.  Cloth works well too. 

My daughter told me about fusible interface that is sold at cloth stores.  You iron this material to the back of cloth to make it stiffer or less stretchy.  Not for leather, but it gives your cloth lining more body. 

other good advice given above that I learned the hard way......make one piece, and glue it to an oversized backing.  Then trim the backing.  Trying to get two pieces to match otherwise results in teeth-gnashing. 

Have fun!   God Bless,   Marc