Carving critique

[Mauser06]

Finally mustered up the guts to attempt carving a gun.


I laid out several attempts.  Finally with this one, after 2 days and a couple tweaks, I felt happy. 


I took the v gouge and cut the outline and realized I was lost.  After several hours of starring at it and numerous Beck originals, a lightbulb went off and I kinda realized how the carving is connected and shaped etc...


It's not COMPLETE. It needs more clean up and I have to redefine some of the edges and such.

After wetting it for the pics, the flaws really popped. Glad I did that because I didn't see most of them.

I plan to finish it after work today...

I realize it's no Beck...it's no master piece carving.  For my first attempt, I am much more pleased than I thought I would be...

Thought I'd post and see if anyone has anything to offer. You guys are typically good at that...









Thanx!!   I appreciate the help as always!   Without this forum, I definitely would have never dove in...let alone worked up the guts to try carving.

[Pukka Bundook]

Mauser,

A job like this can't be "finished after work" one night. It takes time, and most of that will be looking Hard at originals.

Look at them until you can see them  with your eyes closed.  Look at them until you have a filter sort of built into your mind, and then anything that is a bit 'off' will stand out to you like a sore thumb.
When you have done this, look at the job in hand, and you will see where you have missed it.
It is no good anyone telling you what to adjust, because when you have Studied  long enough, (Longer than after work tonight!  LOL)
You will see for yourself what needs to be done.
Do not try and excuse yourself or justify your work.
 You have to be your own most severe critic.

The above advise is the way I've done it myself.     Study and more study.

All the best,

Richard.

[Mauser06]

Thanx Richard! 


Your approach makes perfect sense and I'm definitely not looking to take the easy way out.


My "issue" is I don't have an artistic eye...or bone in my body lol.  It took me countless days and hours to get that far...and I'm pretty happy with it...but I know it can be better...I have tons of references of Beck carvings.  I'm missing the depth of the carving itself I think.

[smallpatch]

You can't carve what you can't see, you can't see what you can't draw.
You are NOT missing the depth of carving.... you are missing proper design.  These are basically designs found in nature.

A well designed, uncarved gun is much nicer to look at, than one that is poorly carved.  It's at this point in the build, that you can turn $1000 worth of parts into a $300 gun.
Suggestion, .... don't practice on this stock.  Get another piece of wood, draw and carve till you get something that is well designed and executed.  Then, and only then, ,try it on your actual stock.

[PPatch]

Mauser06;

It would have been a good idea to post pictures of your pencil renderings on the stock before you began carving. That opportunity is gone now, and I see no way "erase" what you have, so the only direction forward is to try and improve on what you have. Still, even at this point, it will help you to do more drawing and research into the Baroque style. I say that because you need to thoroughly understand the underlying elements of the style in order to recreate them. Longrifle carving is Low Relief carving that gives the impression of being deeper than it really is. Your carving is getting too deep already, so be careful going forward.

The Baroque style consists of interconnected swirling lines, volutes with overlaps and never a straight line or hard angle, everything must flow into the next element. Curves are smooth with no parallel lines, every line is either converging or diverging. Below is a video on drawing the Acanthus leaf, one of the main elements in Baroque art - note how the lines flow, do draw the leaf several times after you have viewed the video because drawing is the best way to understand the style - and note too that there other,  vid's on similar subjects. It won't hurt to view those.



Tools: They must be razor sharp, they should slice through the maple like butter - at no point should you have to be using any force to slice the wood.
Grain: Be mindful of grain direction at all times, observe it before you cut it. Cutting across or with the grain is the way to go, never cut into it or your tool edge will dive into the grain.
Tutorials: There are a couple on ALR, some few on YouTube (mostly of high relief carving, but you can adapt that to low relief)

In summary - go back to basics before you proceed with your stock carving, do some practice carving before going back to your stock. Learn the Baroque style. Once you have done that have a fresh look at your stock and pencil in corrections to smooth out your lines and volutes.

Here is a Mary May video on the types of cuts involved in wood carving, with some good info on keeping an eye on that grain.



Best of luck.

dave


 

[Bill Raby]

I can get much smoother lines by stabbing in with various size and sweep gouges than I can by cutting outline with a v gouge. Then I cut away the background with the largest skew chisel possible. It helps in getting away from the look of an angled plunge down to the carving. Problem is that doing it that way requires lots of chisels and gouges.

[Brian Jordan]

I don't have much room for advice here. I just completed my first rifle and first attempt at carving. I spent days drawing and erasing till I was happy with the design. Once I was happy I would close up shop and look at it again the next day. And yes I usually tweaked things a little. I used the stabbing in technique as I felt it was the best way for me to go about it. And like others have said sharp tools are key, and keeping them maintained during the carving is simple with a leather strop loaded with semi chrome polish next to you on the bench. I learned alot during this process and made notes along the way of what I would do differently for next time.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPfJNjdwQatpbztHsBuwpMLStm2AKi5HFx_GRVQmRS5KIqWC0iSvcE8dlwz7I-kSA/photo/AF1QipO2rPDSF8a3OJDtFrMiai6DQ0hHdMCcK3qhDvdt?key=TGJNYy12ekdxamdqbVNDT0phQlhidFlPUXJXYXlR

[hanshi]

You have a chance of finishing up a carving that won't look bad at all.  I know I'd never tackle a carving what with my inherited visual spacial problem.

[rich pierce]

Elbows are not considered particularly attractive. You’ve got some elbows where there should be curves. Identify those spots and fix them.

[smallpatch]

Looks like you have plenty of room to file, sand it off and start over.
Get a little advice here before you carve again.
Start with a basic "c" scroll, then go from there.
Relief carving only needs to be a 64th to 32nd raised.

[t.caster]

I'm in agreement with Smallpatch. I wish you were close by so I could help with your design layout.

[rick/pa]

John Bivins did several articles for Rifle magazine that are included in the book "Gunsmithing Tips and Projects", available from Wolfe Publishing Company, Prescott, Az.  I'm no expert but the articles included several pictures on carving a long rifle helped me visualize what I was reading in the text.  You can find used copies on Amazon cheaper than the regular price of $39.95.

[t.caster]

Here are some pics of a Beck I am currently working on. They show the evolution of my carving from following the blue pencil drawing with my 1mm V tool (incised), to relieving the wood outside the lines to shaping (although not done yet).







I hope this is of some help. If you have been studying original Beck carvings you will recognize this layout.

Tom C

[Mike Brooks]

That needs to be rasped off of there. Then keep drawing proper designs till you get it right.

[Goo]

Do you hav e a copy machine, scanner? ( If not get one it will come in handy for a lot of stuff) find a VERY simple design in a book or on the computer you can lay a piece of tissue paper over the book or your computer screen and GENTLY trace the design onto the paper with a soft pencil.  Use the enlarge reduce features on the copier to get the size right.   Once you get it right save the master and use the copies by rubbing the backs with charcoal and pressure transfer the lines on to a PRACTICE piece of wood, keep the cuts shallow 1/16".   Watch wood carving videos on YouTube

[Mauser06]

Thanx all!   


I actually appreciate the comments and guidance!  I will keep practicing. I thought I was "ready". This wood is weird. It's hard to the touch..it will scrape nice and shiny in most spots. But cutting it, it feels soft. I haven't worked with a lot of maple...but it's definitely proved to be "different" and "difficult". 

I do keep my tools shape. Clear through diamond lapping films. Constantly touching them up on the lapping film to keep them sharp.

Also learning (slowly) to understand the grain. A lot of the "elbows" came from grain change and the fact I often had to work "backwards" from how I felt comfortable. 



I've "given up" the idea of having it finished for this turkey season. I have a lot of clean up and details and carving to work on. I may carry it as it is on nice weather days....some "hunting dings" will give it some character.  Loll...I don't plan to finish it "as new".   As long as it's not raining, I don't see a problem with shooting and hunting with it "in the white". Soot from firing it will just show me where a gun would naturally accumulate grime for my finish.

[deepcreekdale]

Let me second what rick/pa says. Get that book and study John Bivins articles closely. Also, heed the advice above about practicing your design and drawing. Sometimes I draw a design on a stock 6-8 times before it looks right, that is why they put erasers on pencils. lines and curves should flow with no sharp elbows or straight lines. You are always going to be working with grain change, that is a given. Remember that what looks right on a flat piece of paper might not look right on a 3 dimensional stock.  Smallpatch has excellent advice as well, practice first on another piece of wood first before diving into a stock.

[bob in the woods]

Don't rule out Jim Kibler's practice carving kit.  Check it out.

[Craig Wilcox]

Mauser 06, I am with you on the lack of anything artistic.  But your work shows that you ARE trying!  Yes, you could rasp it all off and try again, but this is YOUR rifle!  Smooth out what you have, using a feather touch.  The wood is hard to your hands and fingers, but very soft to your sharp tools.  Just go slow and soft - don't try to eat the whole enchilada in one bite.  Nibble at it a bit.

[Mikecooper]

I like stab carving.  There is a tutorial on it.  You should take a look at that.   

[Eric Krewson]

I have wanted to carve the first two guns I have made. I would draw my patterns on a piece of scrap and do the carvings over and over but would always came to the conclusion that the gun would be better If I left off my carving attempt.

I am currently building an Issac Haines, maybe, just maybe I can get it right this time.

Here is one I left plain, it is a better gun without my substandard carving.

[blackpowder]

hang in there Mauser, you'll get it 

[Mikecooper]

Besides baroque also lookup rococo art,  get good at drawing C and S scrolls.   The more precise and flowing the drawing the better the carving will be. 

Here's my first,  not great but not bad.  The outline was mostly done with the point of a pocket knife, the grooves with a small V gouge, and a small U shaped gouge for the concave areas.

[Bill Raby]

No matter how much I practice I just can't draw. I don't have the talent for it. So I cheat instead. I take a photo of the part that I am going to carve and put it on the computer. Then I use computer programs to draw out the design on the photo of the stock. Usually Photoshop, Illustrator, or Maya. Then print it out and transfer the design to the stock. Same thing for engraving. I don't have trouble with the actual carving, just the stupid drawing.

[dogcatcher]

Drawing is using the mind to control the hand muscles.   First try simple doodling on scrap paper, or a good source of paper is the used book section at a resale store.  Salvation Army and Goodwill Industries sell used books CHEAP.  Use the line of words as your guides, like a bunch of rulers or grid paper.  A number 2 pencil and a good eraser.  In short your expenses should be less than a dollar.  Pick a subject, draw it, then draw it again, and again, and again until you like it.   Pick simple doodle patterns to start, then as you progress go to more complicated patterns.  Another source of practice is Celtic knots and animals, a lot of info on Google to look at.  Also Google "doodle" drawings. 

When you feel you have trained the muscles in your hand to follow your drawings directions move on to scrolls and acanthis leaves.  We can all learn to draw, some are better than others, but if we are willing to work at it, we can improve.