Author Topic: Phillip Creamer for William Clark  (Read 4481 times)

Offline louieparker

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Phillip Creamer for William Clark
« on: June 10, 2018, 01:48:19 AM »
Longknife I offer these photos as proof that I did  make a copy of the Phillip Creamer rifle..  He made this rifle for William Clark. The thumb piece of original rifle is marked WC and the oval on the breech is marked PC.. It was  give to the Missouri Historical Society by the Clark family in the nineteen thirties..
Its 40 caliber with a 14 1/4 inch trigger pull.. The copy finished with  a 14 1/8 inch  pull..
The 40 cal. barrel is swamped and made by Ed Rayl.

Photos were made by Ric Lambert at the Knoxville Show'
Louie












Offline Joe Schell

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Re: Phillip Creamer for William Clark
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2018, 01:51:41 AM »
Thats real nice !

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Phillip Creamer for William Clark
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2018, 02:23:43 AM »
Handsome rifle for sure. Nice work Louie.

Offline J. Talbert

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Re: Phillip Creamer for William Clark
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2018, 02:26:42 AM »
Louie,

Super rifle!

I'm not familiar with Creamer.  Is there more to the story on ALR somewhere, or can you tell us a little more about him and the original version of this rifle?

Thanks,
Jeff
There are no solutions.  There are only trade-offs.”
Thomas Sowell

Offline Greg Pennell

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Re: Phillip Creamer for William Clark
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2018, 02:45:27 AM »
Those are really good pictures, but no comparison to actually holding it in your hands!  Louie was kind enough to let me handle it at the Knoxville show, and the detail is amazing!  It is a great rifle by any measure.

Greg
“Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks” Thomas Jefferson

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Phillip Creamer for William Clark
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2018, 02:50:08 AM »
Exceptional! Looked good at Princeton too.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Phillip Creamer for William Clark
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2018, 03:15:05 AM »
Terrific choice and execution.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Robert Wolfe

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Re: Phillip Creamer for William Clark
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2018, 03:15:30 AM »
Beautiful work - by both you and Creamer. Well done.
Robert Wolfe
Northern Indiana

Offline Darrin McDonal

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Re: Phillip Creamer for William Clark
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2018, 04:00:42 AM »
Louie, outstanding as usual. That is superb.
Darrin
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Colonial Williamsburg
Owner of Frontier Flintlocks

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Phillip Creamer for William Clark
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2018, 04:07:29 AM »
As has been already said out standing in all respects. That checkered wrist really sets it off. How many lines per inch is it?

Offline B.Barker

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Re: Phillip Creamer for William Clark
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2018, 05:04:03 AM »
Louie did you make the lock? Looks like its hand made.

Offline bama

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Re: Phillip Creamer for William Clark
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2018, 02:02:36 PM »
I had the pleasure of looking at this rifle at the Princeton show while it was in the white and then finished at the Knoxville show and the pictures do not do it justice. Ric takes great pictures but you have to hold this rifle to really appreciate the quality of Louie's craftsmanship. Louie hand made the butt plate and guard I know for sure and he probably made all the metal except for the barrel. If you want to see true craftsmanship take the time to stop and look at this rifle, he will probably have it at the CLA show.

Not to shabby for an old @$#%.
Jim Parker

"An Honest Man is worth his weight in Gold"

n stephenson

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Re: Phillip Creamer for William Clark
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2018, 04:00:34 PM »
Very , very, nicely done sir !!   I really like seeing different pieces. The stuff you don`t see all the time. Thanks for posting!  Nate

Offline David Rase

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Re: Phillip Creamer for William Clark
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2018, 04:17:52 PM »
Beautiful rifle Louie.  I think I am in love!
David

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Phillip Creamer for William Clark
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2018, 04:32:56 PM »
OUTSTANDING!No other way to describe it.I made a lock for a Creamer copy by Bob Browner
sometime ago and Louie and Bob have the details down to perfection.
Will this rifle be at the CLA show in Lexington? I hope to see it there.I seldom see a fancy fullstock
that I like but this one IS different.
Bob Roller

Offline Eric Kettenburg

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Re: Phillip Creamer for William Clark
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2018, 05:08:29 PM »
Now that is seriously a 'masterpiece' rifle.  Spectacular job in all aspects.
Strange women lying in ponds, distributing swords, is no basis for a system of government!

Offline louieparker

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Re: Phillip Creamer for William Clark
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2018, 03:50:59 PM »
Jeff he has been discussed on a few other threads.  A bit on the Bull Buffalo Horn thread. That was  on  Clark's buffalo powder horn,  There are fellows on this site that know far more about Creamer than me, maybe they will chime in on your question..
 He started his career in Maryland and moved to Illinois in 1805.  Setting up his business in Dupo just across the river from St. Louis.  Around 1824 he went back East and worked at Harpers Ferry for a few months . In 1825 he went back west and set up shop in St. Louis and worked there until about 1835.
He worked for the Indian Department. I read somewhere that he had a shop that was especially for the Indian Affairs business and one for his regular gun business . There is record of him making pistols for several dignitaries of the time. But I know of only two of his  Western made rifle and they are nothing alike.   There are surly more out there somewhere. I read in a fur traders account book where he made a down payment to Creame on a rifle in the amount of $17.00 . That alone was a lot for a rifle.  What was the total cost and what did it look like ???
When the subject of St. Louis guns comes up Creamer is rarely mentioned.  Its always Hawken, Gimmer, Dimick  or others.  Creamer  was in the area long before most  (or all ) of these fellows and his work is certainly not below their level. But Hawken is the big name.  I have a friend who is involved in Hawken up to his eye balls. I told him that Willam Clark had two rifles that are now in the museum and both showed his good taste in rifles.. One is John Small and the other by Creamer.. He said," I am surprised he didn't have a Hawken!"  I replied " That may tell you what he thought about Hawken."  He laughed ! 
The lock on this rifle is an original Ashmore  flint action.. Its of the same general shape as the one on the now converted Creamer, but different style pan.
 Bob I am not sure that I will be at the CLA. Would like to.  If I do I will bring the rifle and horn.
Jeff ask about the original rifle. I am attaching a museum full length photo.  . There are some other photos on this site in the builder section. They were posted by a fellow who was making his Creamer copy.. Lots of close ups.. Can't tell you how to find them.
Smiley grouch the wrist is 16 lines per inch.. May not be exactly like the museum rifle. I got screwed up on the count.
Thanks for the nice comments.... Louie­­­­­



Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Phillip Creamer for William Clark
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2018, 04:00:25 PM »
Creamer was obviously a master craftsman that could hold his own with any of his contemporaries
and surpass a lot of them.It's also obvious that Louie Parker and Bob Browner have captured the
idea that Creamer so long ago set forth.
Louie,I seriously doubt if ANY of us will criticize the lines per inch of the checkering and I hope you
can come to the CLA show and bring this recreated rifle.

Bob Roller

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Phillip Creamer for William Clark
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2018, 04:51:11 PM »
Hi Louie: the 16 lines per inch is so well done it looked finer. Every thing about your rifle is very well done. IIRC Creamer made a pistol that Andrew Jackson had.

Offline KC

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Re: Phillip Creamer for William Clark
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2018, 04:59:43 PM »
That's one gorgeous rifle for sure. Beautifully done.
K.C.
K.C. Clem
Bradenton, FL

Offline louieparker

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Re: Phillip Creamer for William Clark
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2018, 05:10:30 PM »
Bob thanks.   I may be a bit biased, I think the Creamer/Clark rifle is the finest rifle to come out of the St. Louis area and probably the Mid West.. Creamer was a great craftsman , but also a creative artist.. I might try to copy his work, but no way would I attempt to compete in the art department.. I am completely useless at that..

Speaking of his pistols... You have probably seen this pistol but I am attaching photos of one of his flint pistols.. It has one of his famous Creamer locks...Louie










Offline Buffaload

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Re: Phillip Creamer for William Clark
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2018, 07:10:29 PM »
What a wonderful pistol.  Any chance you have some dimensions on it?
Ed

Offline louieparker

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Re: Phillip Creamer for William Clark
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2018, 07:32:35 PM »
Buffaload what you like to know ?   LP

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Phillip Creamer for William Clark
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2018, 08:51:16 PM »
Great work Louis...a most worthy interpretation of a really superlative rifle.  Love your attention to detail.
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline Kingsburyarms

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Re: Phillip Creamer for William Clark
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2018, 09:17:23 PM »
Fantastic rifle - like the checkering a lot...